mikeadam Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 You tell em Don! I knew there was a reason I liked climbing with you even if you are afraid of me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Silly alpine/trad climbers! Â If you crack open your Smith Rock guidebook, (which was published in what, 1992?) and refer to the "Ethics" section, there is a blurb about means of ascent. The idea of leaving the draws hanging and calling the no-falls ascent of a thusly-prepared route a "redpoint" harkens back at least a decade, and is endorsed by none other than Alan Watts, American Sports-Climbing Hero. Â The concept being that with bolts already in place, the point of a sport route is to push one's physical limit without having to dink with gear. So while hanging draws adds some difficulty to it, it's far from the same amount of difficulty added by placing gear on a trad route. Why don't you just top-rope it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Regardless of what its called, pre-placeing draws on a sport route doesn't seem like such a big deal to me, the bolts are there allready, whats the big deal? Â Pr-placing gear on a trad route is totaly different. It may be the only safe way to do it, but it seems more like sport climbing than trad climbing to me. It kinda bothers me (just a little) that all these burly climbers are claiming first free ascents on El Cap when they aided up and place the gear first...thats BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Yeah, now that you mention it, what's up with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 bone and ig, Â how about this....who cares how someone else did it?? it bothers you that someone has freed the pitch on preplaced gear?? shit i doubt i could even come close to toprope aiding some of those pitches let alone free climb them..... Â i say the only time someones style should come into question is when they blatently damage the stone. Â i hope huber bro's pink point the shit outta el cap, awesome feats, but i am still a 4th class struggler..... Â worry about something else...like when the next time YOU are going to push YOURSELF on the big stone.... Â the rags are just that, wipe your ass with them............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I don't kow dude...it's just something to talk about...and I'm bored, gimme a break. Â It doesn't bother me that they did it...it bothers me that they claim to have freed it when all the protection was placed on aid. Â [ 08-05-2002, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr666 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I can't agree with you more Erik. For 99% of us climbing is not about making money by getting our pics in the mags by purplepointing some climb. Tomorrow, they will have a new name for another style. For us it does not matter. For us, it is about going out having some fun, challenging ourselves, being in the outdoors. All that good stuff that has to do with ourselves, not with what someone says in a mag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icegirl Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Dude! Chill! Just hanging on the computer, bored, same as Bone... Something to talk about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rr666: I can't agree with you more Erik. For 99% of us climbing is not about making money by getting our pics in the mags by purplepointing some climb. Tomorrow, they will have a new name for another style. For us it does not matter. For us, it is about going out having some fun, challenging ourselves, being in the outdoors. All that good stuff that has to do with ourselves, not with what someone says in a mag. no way dude! climbing is all about making money and being famous...looking tough in the photos, impressing people, getting chicks and sponsors. It's all about what others think of you and your acomplishments. Â You and erik need to get your priorities straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 then lets talk about something awesome...anyone seen the new aaj????? i haven't seen mine yet! if you wanna read about climbing read those...granted it is slowly becoming tainted like the rags, but it still has good writings....  media's job is report sensationalism, look at the recent claim of 3 'experienced' climbers trapped on glacier peak...who knew how experieced they were, esepecially a 1 man and two woman scenario.....i can imagine most men would claim 'experience' with two woman...but who really knows....   and you two can chill out...i am the coolest cat around! to me  [ 08-05-2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: erik ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_noggin Posted August 6, 2002 Author Share Posted August 6, 2002 Hey let's get that cat fight think go'in. Usually it's the male ego that brings out the mud sling'in around here. Biker babe vs Ice ax girl Is this going to be on pay per view wrestling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek_the_Greek Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Damn - I was hoping for more hate and vitriol by now, in a climbing context. All this biker stuff seems over my head... Â "I'm a lurker, not a fighter" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Michelle, spare us your second hand rumors about what you heard from your dad about motorcyclists at a stoplight and focus on the 'trad/sport/we're all climbers' thing we've got here. It's all about that right now, in this thread. I was trying to make a point. sk's motorcycle anecdote was just as poignant as yours, byotch! Just a bit of thread creep that you started; granted, your point was marginally a propos. Her story added additional credence to yours, so bite off. Â Greg W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Don G., Â In Dr. Flash Amazing's (rarely) humble opinion, the reason it is more common or accepted practice to leave the draws hanging on hard routes is that fewer people climb them. Â If you leave your draws up on a 5.10 or whatever, you know that there are going to be a lot of people who are climbing that route, which means you probably don't know a tenth of them. This of course makes you cautious, because who knows which one of those many climbers might thief your gear? Many beginners don't yet know that hanging draws aren't free goodies. Additionally, many climbers at the 5.10 level are still sorting out things like general technique, and still want to climb more than one route in a day to get some more experience, rather than flogging one project for hours on end. Â If you leave your draws up on say, Kings of Rap, you can be pretty sure that 100 people aren't going to be trying it, and you'll probably meet the other folks projecting it. Thus you can be fairly sure that someone's not going to kipe your clips, since you know who they are. And secondly, many people who are projecting hard routes will just do a couple warm-ups, then while away most of the day working on one route. It often takes weeks to send something, which adds up to a lot of attempts and a lot of dinking with draws if you're removing them all the time. Â So it's not just a case of people who climb hard thinking they're too cool for school, it's that it typically makes less sense for a 5.10 climber to leave their draws up on a route. It seems to the Doctor that a lot of beginning climbers (or experienced climbers who don't climb hard sport routes) project this image onto those who do climb hard that the hardmen are all big-ego jerks who are only concerned with the grade of the route they're working, and whether their shoelaces match their chalk bag. Â But if you ever spent some time lurking around the Churning Buttress or Aggro Wall, you'd find a bunch of cool people who couldn't give a shit if you're projecting 5.6 or 5.14. In fact, with the exception of the rather loud and brash Dr. Kubiak, DFA has yet to meet a 5.hard climber who even made the Doc think they had an ego problem (and Kubiak, it turns out, is actually a nice guy--you just wouldn't guess it right off when he starts hollering at you that you're using the "gay Canadian sequence" and you've never even met the guy). Â Those trad climbers, on the other hand ... Â [ 08-06-2002, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Welcome to our little cesspool, Dr. Flash! It's not your cesspool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 True! Cc.com is now a wholly owned subsidiary of the megaconglomerate AmazingCo., Inc. This means you're all subject to the unpredictable, iron-fisted whim of Dr. Flash Amazing, malicious mastermind and terrifying tycoon. Â Cower, unwashed dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by trask: I'm not worthy. Dru will be back tomorrow. DID YOU HAVE IT CIRCLED ON YOUR CALENDAR????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Here is a link:http://www.camp4.com/rock.php?newsid=202 Â I do note that projecting isn't included. Fine Dr, is this term derived from psychoanalysis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Mr. Puget, Â The verb "projecting" is actually derived from the noun "project," as in, "Dyno Dave has been working on his project for months, dude!" It has nothing to do with the verb "to project." Â Thank you for your interest in sports climbing and its attendant terminologies. Â Regards, Dr. Flash "Vocab" Amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 doubt messner would be wearing slipperrs cause he got no toes... more like he would be wearing stiff soled shoes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: doubt messner would be wearing slipperrs cause he got no toes... more like he would be wearing stiff soled shoes... nice catch, dru ...dfa you waffle hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: The verb "projecting" is actually derived from the noun "project," I always thought it would be awesome to have the skill to projectile vomit on demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Au contraire, mister mountaineer! He was wearing the new La Sportiva "Club" slipper, which he helped design for the many toeless alpine climbers who are flocking to the exciting and convenient arena of sports climbing. Â From La Sportiva's product literature: "...in fact, the Club was developed by famed alpinist Reinhold Messner. Its special rectangular last is designed to fit the feet of mountaineers who have lost their toes to frostbite, and, coincidentally, those with clubfoot." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Â It often takes weeks to send something, which adds up to a lot of attempts and a lot of dinking with draws if you're removing them all the time. Â Holy shit! Need anything else be said to disgrace the sportos? If I had weeks to climb you can bet you wouldn't catch me on the same 30m of rock day in and day out. Think of all the amazing alpine settings you could get to in the three weeks that it took you to pinkpoint that latest 5.14 - "Panties in a bunch." Get out in the mountains man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Let's see, here. You're probably one of those climbers that kvetches about ill-prepared wanks mobbing your favorite route and buggering up your backcountry experience, no? Why encourage Dr. Flash Amazing, avowed projecter (as opposed to "projector," as in movies or slides) and sports climbing afficionado to come visit your mountains? Â Anyway, when DFA said "weeks," that's in weekend warrior terms, not literal weeks (although some projects have stretched over enough weekends to fill a few weeks). The Doctor is referring to several weekends' worth of work. Â Plus, while you're interested in taking in some lovely wilderness scenery (a fine pursuit, in DFA's opinion, but one he typically engages in from a boat or his boots), Dr. Flash Amazing is interested in climbing more hard routes. Believe it or not, solving sequences and mustering up the endurance to keep pulling while you're too pumped to think straight is actually pretty fun. Imagine that! Â [ 08-06-2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Dr Flash Amazing ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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