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New Crack


richard_noggin

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So I put up a first ascent crack this weekend in a new climbing area. It looked good from the ground, first I tried to lead it from the ground up,after a few jams my hands were dirty,my shoes had dirt and pebbles in them, so I aided to 80ft and set a gear anchor than hauled the big red drill up and slammed in two bolts with chain anchors. After two days of cleaning(dirt and loose rock)I lead it in traditional style from the ground up placeing gear. The start went fine for 25ft or so, good jams, than it got thin (small gear and edges)when I aided it I used a #0 metolius and three RP's at the crux but on the sharp end all I could get in was a #0 metolius and one RP and was looking at a 20ft whipper on it(sure could have used one of those chicken bolts) it finishes with finger to hand jams.

So my question for the CC.com sprayers is do you really have a traditional first ascent of a crack if you pre place gear or does the climber that onsights it placeing gear on lead have it? This climb would have been way more doable pink pointed(I don't do pink points sport or trad).

I would never lead it again looking at a possible deck fall,but I would with a chicken bolt. Now that the climb has been established is it ethical to add a bolt?

 

[ 07-24-2002, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: richard noggin ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Off White:

For your reference:

 

And hey, maybe you're not trolling, but I've always had the impression you are more spray than substance... not to imply that's necessarily bad.

Thanks for the update on the local gossip.

You proably think I am of no substance because of my post name and the fact that when the internet climbers that give nothing back to climbing start going off about bolts i give them a counter attack

I just got tired of the SOS spray about bolts.

I have put up many first ascents in Wa, belong to the access fund, do trail projects, clean ups, belong to several climber access groups.

What about you ? What about the chest beating loud mouth sprayers on this board they are the ones of no substance they climb spray and stir up shit and give back nothing

MY TREAD IS NOT A TROLL [Mad]

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blanket statements about anyone on this site you do not know might be a little on the overzealous side richard noggin. just because you buy an access fund shirt or work on a trail does not mean that other climbers out there are not doing similar things. how might you know when someone else is fixing up a trail, scrubbing climbs, replacing hardware, trundling loose dangerous blocks, or giving money to a pot of money to maintain a canadian hut system etc?

 

that is a troll for argument if i ever saw one.

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Ah Richard, Thanks for the obviously well thought out query. I would say that the true "trad" ascent is onsight, groundup, placing own pro (to the extent possible - ie if there is fixed gear parties subsequent to the FA can clip that and still be legit.) Therefore in my eyes you did a trad ascent on aid for the FA. Subsequent ascents by you were simply not in compliance with what I believe you mean by "trad". Can you place a bolt on after leading it? I say sure. If you feel it is needed to provide adequate pro go for it. Remember that some people regually free solo onsite climbs harder than most CC.comers can climb on their best day so if the criteria against placing the bolt is only that the route "can be free climbed by someone without the fixed gear" virtually all routes won't fixed gear. Another thng to consider is that you spent two days cleaning the route; after a year will those RP placements still be viable? Probably not. I view it this way: by asserting yourself and taking public property in order to make the FA you have a broader responsibilty to make the route resonably safe and climbable for everyone. That doesn't mean a bolt every four feet, but certainly the normal effects of the normal accumulation of dirt on the nut placements should be considered.

 

PP

 

More routes please!

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hi richard noggin [smile] a song for you [big Drink]

 

The teensy-weensy Muffy had just pooped all about.

Along came Richard Noggin to toss the "raisins" out.

Up came his hand to gobble down some goobers,

But "#!^&*Gaaak-Arrg-PfffbbbLLLt-Phooo!@^*#" he was such a loser!

 

[laf][laf]

 

[ 07-24-2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: trask ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Peter Puget:

Now where does this anger come from? Richard makes a simple post and gets slammed. A simple PM will get you the name of my therapist she worked wonders for Dwayner and me.

Apparently, your therapist cut your balls off and turned you into some sort of flower-arranging, cardigan sweater wearing, nancy-boy. Ricardo Cabesa is obviously trolling, I can hear the Minnekota whirring from here.

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For the record, my thread on bolting wasn't a troll either. I wanted to know how the gang felt about bolting that was perhaps thoughtfully executed. Now I know that they really don't care, which is a good thing.

 

It's hard to stay dry around here sometimes, what with all of the spray. [Eek!]

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poptart,

 

i think the reason no one gives a shit about your post, is that you seem to repersent a minority of people who actully dont climb that much. yet feel they need to be part of the scene so they can have a peer group. therefore your attempt to start a controversial thread was thawarted because we know you have no real knowledge of the subject that you are trying to troll with. if you can prove me wrong i will certainly retract my statement, but until then.............

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POPTART, Just a thought... but if you have a serious question... I don't think spray is the place to ask it. I know you said you stated it there to save someone from moving it after the flame war started, do you feel now, that was a good move?

 

BTW, for the record if there is one... If NO pro can be placed a think well placed bolt is called for... if it agrees with the ethics of the area. I know of a place where there are many bolts near cracks because the pro possabilities are AWFUL. I have heard of another place that if you place a bolt, even for an anchor, you will probably be shot dead. So just be sure of the area before you start drilling.

 

[ 07-24-2002, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: sk ]

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quote:

sk sez:

I know of a place where there are many bolts near cracks because the pro possabilities are AWFUL.

if there are cracks, how are the pro possibilities so awful?

do you mean loose flakes, not cracks?

soft rock?

and if it's soft rock, how good could the bolts be? and if the bolts aren't gonna be very good, should they be placed? or should the rock just be left along?

 

not being snide here, just wondering...

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It's mostly mixed routes... jk and tex could probably answer your questions better. There were places to put gear, and places where you could not. It seemed to be verry challenging for the leaders in our group. I do not have enough experience to answere your question intellegently. All though if you want to head down and check it out I could take you there and would be more than happy to flail arround on anything you lead [big Grin] I'm not being snide either. Verry serious [big Grin]

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