Jim Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 right genius, the debt has to disappear at this very instant Ok then. Your version is.....? do I have a few days to put my expert report together or will soundbites suffice? Kind of interesting how "government spending is responsible for budget shortfall" doesn't elicit as much as a pip of questioning from you but "elites don't pay their fair share" is somehow a big point of contention. Handwaving will suffice as usual. Other than maybe Angela Markel, economists saw Greece heading for the iceberg long before the Wizards of Wall Street pulled off their inside job. The level of debt just wasn't sustainable even in the good times - oh yea - good book-keeping goes a long way. When the government changed hands in 2009 the debt went from 8% to 12% overnight! Hate that!! You offered the 200 taxpayers up - just asking for the details on how you see this playing out - waiting for the details as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Merkel knew about it because the German surplus has its roots in a deficit somewhere. It takes 2 to tango. the details of what, jackass? the same elites that don't pay taxes and profited from the crisis were in charge of policy for as long as we can remember, so why shouldn't they make sacrifices, first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 the details of what, jackass? AD-HOM AD-HOM!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 for the nth time, insults and ad-hom aren't equivalent. Now fuck off, goon. You'll note that the preceding insults all relate to your behavior and therefore aren't ad-hom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 for the nth time, insults and ad-hom aren't equivalent. Now fuck off, goon. You'll note that the preceding insults all relate to your behavior and therefore aren't ad-hom. whatever you say you neo-fascistic thug! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 more continual off topic drivel from Attila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 more continual off topic drivel from Attila here comes the goon squad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The level of debt just wasn't sustainable even in the good times by opposition to your 401k after the Wall Street bailout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The level of debt just wasn't sustainable even in the good times by opposition to your 401k after the Wall Street bailout? by opposition to its rebound in intervening years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Merkel knew about it because the German surplus has its roots in a deficit somewhere. It takes 2 to tango. the details of what, jackass? the same elites that don't pay taxes and profited from the crisis were in charge of policy for as long as we can remember, so why shouldn't they make sacrifices, first? We seem to get to this point relatively quickly. Again and again. You brougt up the idea of more heavily taxing the 200 richest in Greece. I suggested a tonge-in-cheek one-off tax. So I asked what exactly was your approach to what you offered - now we're off to you asking about my 401k(?). So, what exactly are you proposing? Just looking for some details because it's not clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 So, what exactly are you proposing? Just looking for some details because it's not clear to me. You mean personal attacks and erratic hand waving aren't enough of a response to your questions, thoughts or suggestions? You want meaningful discourse? LOL Good luck with that Jim. It's going to be a long road back for Greece, which is why we need to get our financial house in order now, and not wait until it's so very painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 yeah right, Jim claiming that I handwave supposedly in contrast to his non critical approach to the drivel of neoliberals going after public workers is not a personal attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 yeah right, Jim claiming that I handwave supposedly in contrast to his non critical approach to the drivel of neoliberals going after public workers is not a personal attack. Some things for you to try some time: Punctuation. Organization of phrases into sentences. Coherency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Merkel knew about it because the German surplus has its roots in a deficit somewhere. It takes 2 to tango. the details of what, jackass? the same elites that don't pay taxes and profited from the crisis were in charge of policy for as long as we can remember, so why shouldn't they make sacrifices, first? We seem to get to this point relatively quickly. Again and again. indeed, there has been a neoliberal revolution to defund the state since Thatcher and Reagan. Time to pull your head out of ass, perhaps. You brougt up the idea of more heavily taxing the 200 richest in Greece. I suggested a tonge-in-cheek one-off tax. tongue in cheek, my ass. So I asked what exactly was your approach to what you offered - now we're off to you asking about my 401k(?). So, what exactly are you proposing? Just looking for some details because it's not clear to me. why didn't you ask Jayb what he meant when he attributed the budget crisis to overspending? was he hand waving? Edited June 14, 2011 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Merkel knew about it because the German surplus has its roots in a deficit somewhere. It takes 2 to tango. the details of what, jackass? the same elites that don't pay taxes and profited from the crisis were in charge of policy for as long as we can remember, so why shouldn't they make sacrifices, first? We seem to get to this point relatively quickly. Again and again. indeed, there has been a neoliberal revolution to defund the state since Thatcher and Reagan. Time to pull your head out of ass, perhaps. You brougt up the idea of more heavily taxing the 200 richest in Greece. I suggested a tonge-in-cheek one-off tax. tongue in cheek, my ass. So I asked what exactly was your approach to what you offered - now we're off to you asking about my 401k(?). So, what exactly are you proposing? Just looking for some details because it's not clear to me. why didn't ask you Jayb what he meant when he attributed the budget crisis to overspending? was he hand waving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 how eloquent. retard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 So, what exactly are you proposing? Just looking for some details because it's not clear to me. You mean personal attacks and erratic hand waving aren't enough of a response to your questions, thoughts or suggestions? You want meaningful discourse? LOL Good luck with that Jim. It's going to be a long road back for Greece, which is why we need to get our financial house in order now, and not wait until it's so very painful. Back to work for me. But I'm always up for being entertained. And yes, a long row to hoe for Greece. And I agree, we need to make structual changes back here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 retard. I like your new auto-sig line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2011790727_edit06greece.html?syndication=rss Seattle Times 2010. "Greece needs government spending reform Greece's problem is a government that spends more than it has, reflects The Seattle Times editorial board. And that is a problem not exclusive to the Greeks. Police clash with anti-government demonstrators Wednesday in Mytilene, Greece. THE crisis of public finance in Greece feels familiar. The Greek state ran deficits for years, under governments of the left and the right. With the recession, the deficit ballooned to 13.6 percent of Greece's economic output. In fiscal 2009 the U.S. deficit was 9.9 percent of output. America's deficit was not at the nosebleed level of Greece, but it was higher than in 65 years and almost three-quarters as high as Greece's. The Greek crisis is a warning that there are limits. Greece's debt is more than one year's entire national output, which ours is not yet. Greece has the further problem that it owes its debt in euros, a currency its central bank cannot print more of. The Greek government had to go hat in hand to France and Germany, reminding them of the billions in Greek bonds owned by French and German banks. Greece is being bailed out. But notice the price exacted from the people. Public workers in Greece, who get paid for 14 months a year, lose their extra month's pay at Christmas, and again at Easter, and are back to a celestial 12. Pensioners also lose the 13th and 14th months. The retirement age for women advances five years, to 65, the same as men. All this is being done by a socialist government. It didn't have much of a choice. The Greek government will also be clamping down on tax evasion by the wealthy. It will raise tax rates on fuel, alcohol and tobacco. It will raise the value-added tax, which is a kind of sales tax on various stages of production, to 23 percent from 21 percent. Greeks have responded with a general strike. The difficulty with general strikes, as Seattle learned with its own general strike 91 years ago, is gaining anything by doing them. Greece's problem is a government that spends more than it has. It cannot be fixed by quitting work and torching a bank. It can be fixed only by adjusting spending to the money available. And that is a problem not only for the Greeks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 now we're off to you asking about my 401k(?). you keep spewing about government spending for services being unsustainable but you don't want to acknowledge that 401k values are propped by Wall Street speculation and bailouts, and government bonds. How sustainable is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The level of debt just wasn't sustainable even in the good times by opposition to your 401k after the Wall Street bailout? by opposition to its rebound in intervening years Try to be coherent once in a while. As if rebounds after a crash happened without government spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 the seattle times is for austerity. Who knew? LOLZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Try to be coherent once in a while. As if rebounds after a crash happened without government spending. As if every "solution" you propose does not occur without government spending - a lot, in fact. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 And I agree, we need to make structual changes back here as well. structural change is parlance for enforcing the neolib agenda of slashing social services while making the peons pay for the crisis engineered by elites and their puppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Try to be coherent once in a while. As if rebounds after a crash happened without government spending. As if every "solution" you propose does not occur without government spending - a lot, in fact. LOL. except that I don't claim that government spending shouldn't play a role like you and your pals do at every opportunity. That kind of flip flopping is called hypocrisy by most people. In addition to coherence, you should work on being consistent as well. Edited June 14, 2011 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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