Newbie question about Mt Adams

[RobCleminson]

Hi I'm new to this forum and the Pacific North West, having relocated from the UK a year ago to the Portland area.

 

I've had a little experience climbing/hiking in the Swiss Alps on a glacier at around 11,500 ft but when I did that I was with an experienced climber the first time and with a friend the 2nd. My last trip I was with a friend and due to our in-experience we had trouble descending a very steep ice slope(Long story but the year before I took Crampons and kept tripping over in deep snow, this particular year I did not take crampons and... well I could have done with them!!) We slipped whilst descending roped together and I fell head over heal for about 200ft - I was very lucky to stand up and hobble away with a damaged ankle and scraped up arm.

 

The above experience shook me up badly. I'm now ready to get back onto a mountain and wanted to hike Mt Adams South Route with my son this summer.

 

I like to plan things carefully and wanted anyones advice on a few things for my planned Mt. Adams hike.

 

1. We want to hike from the trail head and spend the night at Lunch counter and then climb to the summit the following morning. Can anyone tell me what time of day I should leave the trail head to make it to lunch counter in time to setup camp/cook etc. Also, what time is good to leave lunch counter?

 

2. Will a 35* sleeping bag be warm enough in July up at Lunch Counter?

 

3. Which map is best to buy for this climb and would anyone recommend taking a GPS unit? Also, will my AT&T iphone get a signal so that I can use the gps tracking on that?

 

I plan on watching the weather very carefully and trying to time our trip when we have a few days of good weather forecast as we'd like to enjoy some sunshine and great views hopefully.

 

Any advice would be great appreciated

 

thanks

 

Rob

 

 

[Water]

Rob,

 

Welcome to Portland, the NW, and the forum. Sorry to hear about your fall. Sounds terrible! Also like probably an opportunity to learn a ton about proper technique and equipment usage in the mountains.

 

If you haven't picked up Freedom of the Hills, that would probably be helpful for learning. As well as posting here if you can be a bit thick-skinned to occasional rude or biting comments from some members.

 

Your questions:

1) Why not just go up at the start of a morning like a regular hike? You can get there by noon and have the whole afternoon to relax in your tent, take in the great view, look at what is ahead, and enjoy yourself.

 

You have two options for leaving the next morning

a) quite early in the dark, to see the sunrise from up high. Crampons and ice ax needed as the snow will be firm and crusty. On your way down it will likely be too firm to glissade from pikers peak back to lunch counter. But you get to see the sunrise, potentially, from like 10,000-12,000ft.

 

b) leave around sunrise or just after, or even an hour after. Crampon/ice ax use will depend on your comfort level, how quickly the snow softens up, how cold it got the night before, etc. You can thus see the sunrise from lunch counter at 9,000-9,500ft. The plus of this option is that once the snow softens up, there is generally a great nice long 2000ft glissade from pikers peak at 11k~ back to lunch counter.

 

I am a fan of option B. I am going to say it just because, but, don't, absolutely do NOT, glissade with crampons on. Never. Don't make any justification for it.

 

2) a 35 degree bag depends on if you sleep warm or sleep cold. My guess is the temp will drop to somewhere around 30 degrees at night, maybe not even. It tends to be windy there. If you're camping on snow, of course that adds another element. I think it would probably get the job done, especially if you have some other clothes you could throw on.

 

3) There is a large Mt. Adams fold out map at REI that I think is very good - waterproof and very highly detailed topo. Your phone may very well work at lunch counter, but then not at pikers, but then on the summit, and not down at the trailhead. Cell phones in the cascades are generally pretty decent but can be hit and miss, and depends on if you're in a valley or up high. If the weather is clear, I would say you do not need a GPS at all. If you have some basic wits about being in the woods or being on snow, you do not need a GPS. Even those without basic wits can probably follow the trail of bootpack and prints up from the TH to lunch counter, and from Lunch counter the route to the top is all but obvious--there are no places to make a wrong turn and if it is a sunny weekend there will be hordes to guide you.

 

Best of luck to you, ask if you've got more questions. Hope you get to shed off some of the mountain heeby-jeebies.

 

matt

 

[RobCleminson]

Matt,

 

thanks for the prompt and informative reply :-)

 

Your advice is what I was hoping for, I just wanted to get someone to confirm what i thought I might do anyway. With regards point 1, is it doable to drive up early on a Saturday morning from Portland, find parking and start the hike around 8am or should I get up there on a friday afternoon/evening and camp at the trail head? Not too sure how crowded it will be.

 

Will the lunch counter likely be covered in snow or will I be camping on stone? I assume we'll need sleeping mats either way and if so do I need anything special to keep warm on the snow. My bag is a 20* bag and my sons is 35*. I've never camped at altitude and my son and I are excited to do this. Just bought a nice REI half dome+ in the sale.

 

I'm sure we can follow the tracks but will also take a map and compass, thanks for the pointer about REI, I've got one where I work so will go find that map.

 

thanks

 

Rob

 

[JeffreyR]

I would think getting up there saturday morning would be just fine. I have done Adams car to car in a day, but I think your plan will be much more enjoyable. Have you looked into getting a permit yet? I believe there is a quota for climber on each route on a given day.

When are you planning on climbing? If you go any time before mid august I would imagine most of the lunch counter will be under snow. Getting a good pad will make sleeping on snow more comfortable. Make sure it is a full length pad so all of your body is off the ground. I usually use one of the non-inflatable closed cell foam thermarest pads which work great for me,

[Water]

Rob,

 

The map you want is this:

http://www.discovernw.org/store_mount-adams-indian-heaven-and-trapper-creek-wilderness-map_15955.html

 

When I brought my fiance up last july 24-25, i forgot the tent poles (hehe..remembered about half way to lunch counter..the poles back in portland). So we just slept on top of the tent. Not on snow. There are a ton of rock walls with campspots in volcanic sand/grit up there and most of them were melted out. Late July, probably same thing this year. Probably. But there was plenty of snow around of course.

 

Your sleeping bags are probably fine. How old is your son? You could probably switch it up if you were worried about him being cold (assuming you are of similar stature). Or just bring some extra layers, honestly I think it would be fine, esp in a tent as that adds some warmth. You could always boil some water into a nalagene and put that in a bag to add warmth.

 

Parking can be problematic, BUT, I would suggest sleeping your own bed and waking up early and getting there. The mnt draws people from all over, including those looking to do it in a day, so some will arrive at 2am and you'll hear doors slamming and there will be people camping there who maybe aren't climbing, and trucks with motors on, etc.. Save yourself that, get some sleep, wake up early, and if you started at 8am, you will be absolutely fine. At its worst you park a few hundred yards from the TH instead of 50 feet from it.

 

You do need a permit, but there is no cap on how many can climb Adams. The permit is $15 I think.

 

you'll have a wonderful time. skip a questionable weather weekend and go when it will for sure be nice.

 

Other tips, make sure to bring the strong sun screen and a good hat and sun glasses.

 

cheers

[mattp]

I would consider camping lower than the Lunch Counter.

 

There is nice camping down at timberline and, especially if it is windy, you will be a lot more comfortable down there. I believe that by far most parties who climb the S. Route climb in a single day, and this includes climbers ages 10 to 80, in-shape and out.

 

Although the "stats" are huge - what is it? 7,000 feet of gain? - I don't think you need to worry about the gain as much as the total experience. The Lunch Counter is often not a nice place to camp.

[rob]

I did it in a day, it was not hard by any means. I'm glad I didn't stay at the lunch counter, it was crazy crowded. But, I've heard the views are nice, so....

[Water]

doing in a day is solid too. my first time up was in mid september one year i made it from the top to the TH in 1hr 45min. Scree surf baby!

If you are not in good shape or use to elevation gain, you will call it hard. for a lot of folks, esp those who are not climbers per'se, making a weekend out of it is great fun--no rush to 'get it done' in a day--there is plenty to take in for the person who doesn't get up high often. Sure lunch counter can/will be crowded, but, what else are you going to do with your weekend? if you have plans to explore elsewhere the next day, or need to get home to take care of something, or are planning on heading elsewhere for immediate adventure, go for it in a day. If you're just eager to get back home to mow the grass, saddle up a bit more weight to LC and take in the experience. I think the worst thing about LC is finding people's abandoned blue bags. But the ones the trout lake ranger station gives out are inferior to those on rainier, imho.. thinner plastic, stupid kitty litter mess.. does not surprise me they are left. a barrel for them there would not be the worst idea, in the sense that it would at least congregate such waste.. tho likely encourage much more other types of trash to be left, unfortunately.

 

[RobCleminson]

Thanks for all the great info.

 

My only last small question is whether or not I need a thermal sleeping mat for camping at altitude. I've only ever camped at much lower elevations on airbeds or simple foam sleeping mats. Should I consider buying a thermal mat or will my cheapo bluefoam mats be fine?

 

Now time to plan and look for that weather window. We're aiming for the first or last weekend in July.

 

thanks

 

Rob

[JeffreyR]

I would think your mats would be fine for July.

[RaisedByPikas]

I would get up early saturday morning, drive to the TH, hike to the lunch counter for the night, then up and back down in the morning. If its sunny you will bake in camp from the heat. Take lots of sunscreen and put it on twice as often as you think you need to.

 

If its windy the lunch counter can suck. Everything will be covered in a very fine layer of dust. But the views are awesome and it has that high mountain feel.

 

Your blue foam mats will be fine.

[caverpilot]

A map and compass are part of the 10 essentials. Never climb without them. No one can predict whiteouts, even on bluebird high pressure days (been there, done that) A GPS makes wandering in the clouds that much easier. There are off-route cliffs and crevasses. A GPS confirms you location, compass only confirms your direction.

 

There are free topo maps you can download of Mt. Adams on your iPhone. Then, the GPS will place you on the map. iPhone DOES NOT NEED A CELL SIGNAL FOR THE GPS TO WORK. You just need a MAP that is ALREADY downloaded to your phone. (Otherwise, you'll see where you are with no reference since it needs cell coverage to download the Google map)To verify this, download the map, turn on airplane mode, and make sure the map is actually on your iPhone.

 

Remember, sleeping on SNOW is WARMER than sleeping on ROCKS. Snow is an excellent insulator - rocks are very poor insulators. And hard.

 

The steepest part of the climb is just below Piker's Peak (false summit.) If you're weary of icy conditions on a steep slope, then wait till the sun comes up to leave the Lunch Counter. If not, watch it rise from the top!

Edited May 27, 2011 by caverpilot

[Water]

Remember, sleeping on SNOW is WARMER than sleeping on ROCKS. Snow is an excellent insulator - rocks are very poor insulators. And hard.

 

this may be true but quite flawed logic where to camp in summer.

 

 

[RaisedByPikas]

Remember, sleeping on SNOW is WARMER than sleeping on ROCKS. Snow is an excellent insulator - rocks are very poor insulators. And hard.

 

This won't be true for the lunch counter in July. The rocks get plenty warmed up during the day.

[Water]

yes. they are very dark. and will radiate heat back through the evening and night. in fact, i layed on some nice rocks after dark one evening while doing photography up there, and the rocks are downright warm.

[RobCleminson]

thanks again for more info.

 

can you point me in the right direction for these few iphone maps?

 

thanks

 

Rob

[medicsandy]

Remember the pemits. We were checked several times. They were really nice about it, but did want to see them. Also...if you do shoot for the first of July, check to make sure the road to the trailhead is open. Some years its not until mid month.

Have a great trip!

[caverpilot]

thanks again for more info.

 

can you point me in the right direction for these few iphone maps?

 

thanks

 

Rob

I can't recommend any... search "iPhone Topos GPS no 3G" and check it out... Gaia GPS, "iTopoMaps," "Topo Maps," etc all work this way.

I use a free app called Topos2Go free, which doesn't locate me on the map but is nice for reconning the route in the tent...

[caverpilot]

Remember, sleeping on SNOW is WARMER than sleeping on ROCKS. Snow is an excellent insulator - rocks are very poor insulators. And hard.

 

This won't be true for the lunch counter in July. The rocks get plenty warmed up during the day.

 

Good point! I was actually thinking (winter or summer) of sleeping on a foot of snow versus sleeping on the frozen soil/ground - in that case, it is far warmer to sleep on the snow.

 

However, after a little Googling, I realized (duh!) that volcanic rock has many air pockets and is therefore generally warmer than snow. Some online sources peg snow with a R-value of 1.0 and Pumice as 1.5.... and by the way I did sleep on the rocks on the Lunch Counter!!

 

Thanks for pointing out that nonsense!

[tvashtarkatena]

Heat transfer (or flux) = Thermal Conductivity x [Temp(you) - Temp (sleeping surface)]

 

Thermal conductivity is the inverse of Thermal Resistivity (degree of insulation). Ie, if the sleeping surface's temp is close to the temp at the bottom of your pad, there won't be enough temperature differential, and therefore heat transfer, for its thermal conductivity to matter much.

 

Two things probably matter a lot more than the surface you sleep on: a) cutting the wind to reduce convective heat transfer or b) reducing the amount you radiate to the night sky by reducing the overall area of sky you're directly exposed to line of sight - by sleeping next to or under objects that are relatively warmer than outer space, like a tent, trees, or terrain. Clouds work, too, if you can summon them up, but that option has its downsides....

 

Also, dark volcanic rocks are pretty good at absorbing sunlight in the visible wavelengths during the day and re-radiating that energy as infrared at night. Any rock will do this, but basalt is particularly good because of its finer crystal structure, higher iron content/density, and darker surface. This re-radiation can reduce your conductive heat loss after a sunny day if the wind or cold doesn't suck that heat out before you bed down.

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Get ur geek on!