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nels0891

RIP Erhard Loretan

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Talented climber for sure, but total douche nozzle:

 

Loretan's acclaim was marred by the tragic 2001 death of his 7-month-old son, who was killed when Loretan shook him to stop his crying.

 

 

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Ya I read about that... seems a little sketchy, but at this point i think i could do him the service of recognizing his accomplishments as a climber and leave his personal stuff out of it.

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Really? :rolleyes:

 

That kind of action should negate any accomplishments.......I don't give a shit if a guy figured out how to get world peace any kind of action like shaking a baby and causing death is inexcusable.

 

Out of respect for the dead I stop.........

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Ya I read about that... seems a little sketchy, but at this point i think i could do him the service of recognizing his accomplishments as a climber and leave his personal stuff out of it.

 

His personal stuff is core values.

Climbing "accomplishments" are bullshit in comparison.

Sad to have such a black mark on his life.

 

I am with you Tyson, however, I don't give a rats azz about "respect of the dead" in this case.

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His personal stuff is core values.

Climbing "accomplishments" are bullshit in comparison.

Sad to have such a black mark on his life.

 

I highly doubt that killing small children was his core value. Would bet that he has been beating himself up plenty in these last 10 years and inflicted more self pain than any interweb comments could ever. I can't even imagine what it must have been like for him.

But you are free to have your feelings for a man you never met. Why not go protest his funeral?

 

what would jesus do?

 

the respecting the dead is a good idea because we all have made mistakes and someday we will die too. (albeit never a dead child on the conscious) And karma is a bitch.

 

rip Erhard

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I highly doubt that killing small children was his core value

But he did it...no?

I haven't...you haven't...he did. Shaking isn't exactly "accidental" in my book.

Negative respect on my end, this is pretty cut and dry.

 

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Well said Gene. I would hate to have the balance of my life be judged solely on my mistakes.

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Genes point is quite valid and I respect it. I still hold my opinion and can't excuse a preventable act such as that, mistake or not.

I am not casting stones on the mans entire life.

I agree also with DPS and would hope to not be judged solely by my mistakes.

I will not however be carrying this mans banner as a hero.

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I don't think anyone is excusing his mistake. It was brought up in the article and I am would assume that most articles about him have reference to that too. Maybe in europe where climbers are sports stars things may be different. But here it seems that any bad choices with children involved results in a lifetime of media attention to that choice. Was it Brittany who dangled a child out of a window? The crocodile hunter who had his kid in a gator pit. Don't really know if michael jackson ever got away with the weird things that went on in his palace playground.

 

I wonder if that tragedy had anything to do with his leaving the limelight or did he just get to old and tired? I suspect that it was a combination of both.

 

It would be interesting to see how his death is taken in europe. Praised as a hero or quickly and quietly said goodbyes.

 

I have never climbed in europe so I have no feel for how the culture is over there.

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Anyone who has ever had a kid has had the thought of shaking the hell out of their screaming baby once or twice. Most of us don't do it. It sucks that he did and I'll bet it has haunted him every day. I'm not saying it's right, it just sucks that now two people are dead. RIP.

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Also its like being on a jury where you get the whole story not just what the media feeds you, and then you may know more of the circumstances surounding the tragedy. Not that it was right or just but you may have a different take on it. Its like if you had a couple beers at the pub and you got into a car accident on the way home and the other person died even though you wernt "drunk"maybe you didnt even cause the accident but now the media/law and anyone who reads the story lables you a drunkard that killed so and so. forever. yes his actions were wrong and tragic but unless you know really what happend that night i myself wont cast judgment. but hey its a free country

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Any man that kills his own infant son, and is convicted of it, on a guilty plea is worthless in my eyes. Being a father changes the world in many ways, and those that harm children deserve no mercy or acclaim.

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Kuk. Any one that drinks and drives should be in jail. Yes he may not have caused the accident but he also may have been impaired and not able to avoid it. You have a responsibility as a driver and as a father to avoid a swerving car or breaking a Childs neck. Sorry I can't bring myself to like the guy.

 

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His life defines Tragedy

 

A lifetime of incredible effort in the mountains committed to redefining the capability of the human spirit and body yet his own life ultimately defined by a few careless seconds. I'm sure no one was harder on Erhard in the last 10 years then himself. A cautionary tale for the rest of us. RIP.

 

N-G0002-342-saturn-devouring-his-son.jpg

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Kuk. Any one that drinks and drives should be in jail.
Remind me not to go have a beer with you

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His life defines Tragedy

 

A lifetime of incredible effort in the mountains committed to redefining the capability of the human spirit and body yet his own life ultimately defined by a few careless seconds. I'm sure no one was harder on Erhard in the last 10 years then himself. A cautionary tale for the rest of us. RIP.

 

N-G0002-342-saturn-devouring-his-son.jpg

 

Saturn Devouring His Son. Heavy...

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Also its like being on a jury where you get the whole story not just what the media feeds you, and then you may know more of the circumstances surounding the tragedy.

 

Getting way OT but speaking with limited participation at a trial, a jury does not (rarely) get the "whole story" either.

 

As for Loretan, et al. They pushed a frontier like Messner and others. Some of those frontiers have yet to have been repeated. That says a lot. And like all of us we are not infallible, we are human, we make mistakes. Mistakes that we live with forever, whether living or dead.

 

 

 

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As for Loretan, et al. They pushed a frontier like Messner and others. Some of those frontiers have yet to have been repeated. That says a lot. And like all of us we are not infallible, we are human, we make mistakes. Mistakes that we live with forever, whether living or dead.

Well said scared silly

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Some perspective is helpful. From his Associated Press obituary:

 

"Mr. Loretan’s legendary exploits in the mountains were nearly overshadowed by his guilty plea to negligent manslaughter in the death of his 7-month-old son.

 

He told police he had shaken the baby for a couple of seconds to stop him from crying, then put the child to bed. In 2003, he was given a four-month suspended sentence.

 

The case helped lead to new research showing that many parents were unaware that infants, because of weak neck muscles, can die from being shaken for only a few seconds."

 

Here's a link to a Swiss article that came out at the time, in which the writer says:

 

"The Loretan case has triggered a debate on babyshaking in Switzerland and has lead to new research on the subject.

 

A study, conducted by Zurich's children's hospital, found that one child in Switzerland suffers from shaken baby syndrome every month.

 

The parents are mostly unaware of the fatal consequences that can result from shaking an infant for just a few seconds, says Ulrich Lips, lead author of the study and head of the hospital's child protection unit."

 

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Alpinist_sentenced_for_shaking_baby_son_to_death.html?cid=3156844

 

Was it intentional? The shaking was, but the death of his child certainly wasn't. And what was it like carrying that with him for the rest of his life? It's very sad, but these are things to think about before making snap-judgments. It might be helpful to have this information in mind when you think about Mr. Loretan. Should this define him? Do people really think it's wrong to praise his climbing accomplishments and appreciate the way he inspired other climbers because of this incident?

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if you can be around a screaming infant and not start feeling pyscho you're a far better man than me...i feel bad for any unhappy asshole in that position. it's not some shit that some men are well-evolved to handle. infanticide is damn near ubiquitious throughout the mammalian world. maybe we've evolved less than folks would want?

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Simply the act of actually doing it. Sorry, cannot comprehend.

wish i could be so placid in my handling of emotions - the first years of both my kids lives were like tours of duty in vietnam it felt like :)

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