Water Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Well well well.. I've read these threads many a time and just wanted to kick the ball again on it. Anyone have any feedback? I don't plan on ice climbing, to start off. It would be an aspiration to lead a moderate grade alpine ice pitch. Follow, okay.. The area I'd find it useful is steep hard snow/gullies with the occasional ice step on cascade volcanoes. Looking at Aztarex hammer (50cm), CAMP Alpax special hammer (57cm), and Grivel Air Tech Evo Hammer (48cm) Mostly lean towards Aztarex as I've just heard good stuff from it, cons being too light of a head for good stick when ice climbing (not an issue for me), shaft filling with snow (can block this), and the griprest a bit cumbersome to remove. +petzl +replace picks +light CAMP Alpax has the griprest in a sliding sheath for easier access. +T shaft +replaceable picks -heavy Grivel Air Tech Evo hammer.. Just heard a lot of good word about this too. -can't replace pick, +nice array of grip-handle/horn accessories All will probably get the job done, I'm aware. Going to be paired with bd raven 65. If petzl made the sum'tec with a hammer, I'd get that. thanks Edited April 19, 2011 by Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) I personally would go for the Aztarex, but I am generally a fan of Charlet/Moser/Petzl tools. I saw a pair for sale here the other day for $250, which is a good deal considering they are $199 a piece retail. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1013765/Petzl_Aztarex#Post1013765 Edited April 19, 2011 by DPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSky Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I use a Grivel Matrix light hammer with a slider for your described application. Lots of tools will work just fine. For occasional 2nd tool use I wouldn't necessarily worry about a replaceable pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 looked at matrix light as well. hammer seems really tiny--would use this to pound a picket occasionally. one anecdotal review i found said with the monster-x head it can be difficult to hold the head, (i have small hands)..and plunge geometry wasn't great. but i took with a grain of salt. anything on your end to share regarding that? like i said, i realize most of what is listed will work, just being anal about my selection. I agree replaceable pick probably not so important since its occasional use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 ... Looking at ... CAMP Alpax special hammer (57cm) .. Don't buy a hammer longer than 50cm. I could be wrong, but more than likely you'll end up regretting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 yea, i was not so fond of the longer length on that - would prefer short, the length is extra weight, traditional ax for piolet cane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 looked at matrix light as well. hammer seems really tiny--would use this to pound a picket occasionally. That is one of the reasons I am so fond of the Petzl Aztar/ex tools - the adze and hammer are very functional. I know alpinsits are using tools without hammers/adzes at all, but one of the reasons I bring a second tool is to place/remove pitons and pickets. I had a 50 cm SMC Himalayan ice hammer that was wonderful for this application due to its large hammer head and overall weight, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The area I'd find it useful is steep hard snow/gullies with the occasional ice step on cascade volcanoes. Going to be paired with bd raven 65. I think the 65 cm tool would be a bit long for your stated goals of ice steps. Can definately make it happen but it will feel awkward. I prefer a 60cm or 55cm mtn axe paired with a ice tool like you are looking at. depending on your height and the angle of the gulley, 65 may even feel long for plain flat foot snow climbing. If money is not a serious issue and you are going to be making a habit of climbing hard mountain routes, consider a matching pair of alpine climbing tools, like the grivel air techs or aztarex. If it gets to point were I want a second tool, I like having somewhat matching tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 May someone should have mentioned that to Lowe and Weiss before they did Bridalveil with a 50 cm hammer and three 70 cm axes. Not likely you'll find anything on the Valcanos you can't climb with that combo. The short Grivel is a good tool as is the BD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Has anyone found anything similar to the Simond Fox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YocumRidge Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Axes? Seriously? 1930s: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I really like the Fox I have - the Alp Monster might also work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 the Fox is no longer made, right? I was concidering the Alp Monster (or lil monster?) if I ever lost/broke my fox. Damn I love the fox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Much as I love my Nomics a decent axe will get you up most things. It is an acquired taste I suspect. A old Chouinard alpine hammer might well do the trick as well for the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSky Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 looked at matrix light as well. hammer seems really tiny--would use this to pound a picket occasionally. one anecdotal review i found said with the monster-x head it can be difficult to hold the head, (i have small hands)..and plunge geometry wasn't great. but i took with a grain of salt. anything on your end to share regarding that? It's small but not much smaller than anything else from the newer generation of tools. I've pounded plenty of pitons and a few pickets with it and it worked as expected. Call me ghetto but I'm not shy about using the side of a T-rated pick to put in pickets anyway. I'd agree it wouldn't be my favorite axe to plunge but if it's a second tool I'm not likely to be using it much for that--more likely high or low dagger position or traction, which it excels in. Your raven is going to be more comfortable for general mountaineering techniques. The goofy rubber accordian thing is very nice for gripping below the head for what it's worth. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 FYI - Bradley Alpinist has the Fox listed. I don't know if it's in stock, but it's there. I've never used a hammer to set a picket. I turn my ice axe upside down and pound with the top of the head. My hand is on the shaft of the axe, just below(above) the head. Kind of like a potato masher. That way I can only hit the picket with the steel part of the axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 FWIW when I was Chamonix and looked into visiting the Simond factory I was told they had sold the brand name and would soon no longer be building ice tools. Going to soft goods. Currently there web site still lists the Fox in a couple of versions. I made lwt hammers from Fox Carving axes this winter for Mikey and Colin but haven't hear how they worked out. http://www.simond.com/shop/categorie/cat-2-Ice-axes/cat-13-Mountaineering/ FF has it right i think. Most anything will work for a picket. Pitons? Not so much but more options than you might think. I've used adzes to place pitons a tiem or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 FWIW when I was Chamonix and looked into visiting the Simond factory I was told they had sold the brand name and would soon no longer be building ice tools.. That's really sad ... so much great history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Dane, sounds like you should remake the Fox! That little fucker has saved my ass so many times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 A short hammer with a big striking surface, a straight shaft, a pinky rest, and a recurve pick would be sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 That's really sad ... so much great history Agreed. You walk through the Chamonix cemetary and so many Simonds lost in the mtns there. Then think back and remember the Simond Chacal was really the first modern tool. You don' have to imagine where the experience and design genious for that tool went. I'd love to have a pair of Paranha in decent shape. Mikey did those hammers stay in one piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 yea, I'd buy one Dane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Looks like Bradley has the Fox hammer, Simond is still making a Fox Rock versions. SMC makes a 50cm hammer. Grivel has several offerings. I like the AT Evo hammer. BD has the Raven. Petzl has several offerings that would work... like the Aztarex. Daniel asks for, "a short hammer with a big striking surface, a straight shaft, a pinky rest, and a recurve pick would be sweet." Kurt and Layton want a Fox? Fox axe Fox Rock I like the SMC but it is heavy. A full size tool that can easily replace your axe. Petzl AZTAREX Depending on what you require anything from a Chouinard Alpine hammer or an old Terrordactyl, Chacal or Pulsar would work as well. Chacal I still use an Chouinard hammer on occasion to pound pins. I also have carried a Petzl Snow Racer (340g @ 50cm) with a pair of Nomics in the alpine to get over the shrund or on steep snow where a good straight tool shaft might allow you to continue where a radically bent tech tool's bent shaft is useless and surface conditions won't allow a pick to stick. Places where a Cobra or Quark or even an AZTAREX might make more sense than a Nomic or Ergo. Nothing wrong with a long axe. But I'd keep a hammer under 45cm. I've used really short hammers (38/40/45) with long and short traditional axes (60cm and 50cm) to climb up to WI4+ on waterfalls and in the alpine. Looking through my old tools, no less than a half dozen different short hammer/axe combos What were once considered N wall hammers or just the mate to your tool with an adze. Now I am less concerned about having a hammer..even less so about an adze but do want a straight shaft on occasion for steep snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I had the SMC Himalayan Hammer. It was great as a second tool for moderately steep alpine ice routes. Like Dane said, heavy, but likely indestructable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 my Fox is different. it is hollow and doesn't have the rubber grip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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