mhux Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 As a student, rather naive to the realistic demands of life, but overpowered with idealism and ambition...I was wondering, have any of you ever dirtbagged? A few months here and there isn't quite what I'm looking for (that's a vacation), I mean a committed, minimalistic lifestyle completely focused on climbing (and/or skiing). I know that when I get out of college, I want to climb as much as possible (probably guide...I know they're not the same though), and definitely not hold a 'traditional' 9-5 wage-slave job at a cubicle (not to offend anyone!) Anyway, dirtbagging seems like a waning possibility with the absurd trail/camping fees the USFS is ever enforcing; is it still possible? Can you be an alpine climbing dirtbag (my question is where do your wet gear dry..?) with the excessive permit system and all its restrictions in effect? I'm sure dirtbagging is better suited for more mild regions in either case. I suppose this is a broad topic, but just spill your thoughts; what do you really need to 'survive' and climb, your thoughts on the matter, and if you have experience, if it really is all its cracked up to be? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 dirtbaggin is relative. The dirtbags of yesterday are a different dirtbag of today. You just have to adjust to current condition to still be a dirtbag. That means you need more money and can be a dirtbag for less before having to succumb to "real world". Â I think indian creek may be the last well known climbing are that one can still be a cheap dirtbag. J tree, red rocks, city of rocks and squamish all had decent free camping but all have modern pay camping. Smith is slowly losing it too. Â I would think that bouldering is a good sport to go and be a dirtbag still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've never really dirtbagged but after encountering a few folks that have I do have a few thoughts. Â The first would be to realize that for all but a handful of people, dirtbagging is going to be a transient phase in your life and it's best to have a plan for what you are going to do afterwards. The people that seemed to get the most out of the experience and were able to maintain the carpe diem mentality while living out of their cars knew they'd be heading off to grad/professional school, starting an apprenticeship for a skilled trade, etc at some pre-determined date and this seemed to make them wicked motivated to get after it as much as possible before re-joining the real world. Â The second group of folks who seemed to have it wired were people who had more or less figured out what they wanted to do and were dirt-bagging during a sabbatical from a career they enjoyed, and which enabled them to sock away a stash of cash beforehand that made life much more pleasant while playing the dirtbag game. Â I knew a guy who spent 2-3 months in J-Tree doing the whole dirtbag thing - all the way to dumpster diving for food and getting 1/2 of his calories from the stuff that the local bakery tossed out after it had sat on the shelf for a couple of days - who had enough cash socked away to cover the mortgage on his 400K home, health insurance, etc while he was out doing the minimalist living thing. When it was time to come home and his head gasket blew on the trip back - he had the cash set aside to swipe his card and cover it without sweating the bill. While he was there he ran into more than a few people who literally had no money for food, gas, etc and were making the rounds trying to sell all of their gear to get a ride home, scrounge up enough money to take their dog to the vet, etc, etc. I know what position I'd rather be in, but YMMV. Â If all of the above is a bunch of quasi-philosophical yammering that you could do without and you're looking for technical knowhow on the ins and outs of day-to-day dirtbagging, I totally understand. Here's a previous thread to help you out. Â http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/837896/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Larry Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) Dirt bagging is the easy part. Wash you junk and your ready to go.The more you can entertain yourself the more $ you save. As far as being a guide your best bet is to save some real money for a week long, or longer, alpine training program just to get your feet wet and pick the guides brains. From what I have heard the realities of guiding are not very glamorous, there are a lot of dick clients--if your serious this will be the best investment you can make if your thinking of taking it to the next level ie guiding. You can learn on your own but it will be a very dangerous and slow process. You can have a friend teach you the basics with potentially fatal or flawed habits. Free classes are very slow and often times dangerous. I learned on my own and took a couple free classes; it was a retarded way to learn. I did not accomplish most of the alpine things I wished I had because I wanted to save a few bucks. Not sure but sounds like your going in more than one direction; alpine, skiing, dirt bagging, guiding. Not that you don't need all these skills to be a guide but, like your education, you will need real bucks for guide training school and a cushion to boot. Asking for gear drying solutions leads me to believe, maybe incorrectly, that you haven't much experience. I don't have insurance and I'm a hypocrite but the last thing I want to be is a burden on someone; shit I don't even have a job. I'm a fucking dinosaur living on the edge of night and day-twilight-zone. I imagine you don't want to be either. Take the classes and network like crazy. Just an after thought, Be a ski instructor, not sure theres any $ in it, and dirt bag the rest of the time.Your a student, do your research and Good luck and have a F'in blast. Edited February 17, 2011 by Lucky Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Many years ago I climbed and camped with some friends who "dirtbagged it" as I think you are suggesting the term be applied. In all cases, I think, these individuals either moved on to something else (working) or I lost track of them. Â I have had friends who lived what I would call a minimalist lifestyle for many years on end but even these had at least some kind of seasonal employment or an independent source of wealth. Â I'm not suggesting that anybody who seeks a minimalist lifestyle is misguided. To the opposite, I would say that I applaud it. But I don't think it is easy. Particularly if you want to engage in an inherently expensive activity like mountain climbing. It need not be extremely expensive, but the costs of our hobby are not inconsequential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhux Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Interesting responses...I think what I really meant was a minimalist lifestyle via seasonal employment, probably in the form of guiding, or S&R. 'Serious' dirtbagging would be pretty hard considering the lack of $$ (or resources in general), but there's certainly good minimalist lessons to be learned from it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 i'm not sure about the hang-up on this "dirt-bag" label, but it sounds like what you wanna do is work part of the year and then climb part of the year, and do the climbing part on the cheaps. Â wait tables, drive a taxi (that's what i did at one point, made around 200 a day, and could come and go as i pleased), construction, alaska fishing (especially crab, if you can get in), guiding (but kinda sucks for money), turn tricks if you're hot. Â traveling er nurse sounds like a good gig for the right person. an acquaintance's friend does this and works 4 months annually, making around 40 or 50 grand. Â teaching can be good, with a few months off a year, but hard to find work now. Â if you really want to "dirt bag", just do it. hop the rails and head south. good time of year to do it now, when the weather sucks up here for the next 3 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 just don't get a goddamn drum, hula-hoop, and slack-line or i'll bust out my drum-knife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Larry Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Interesting responses...I think what I really meant was a minimalist lifestyle via seasonal employment, probably in the form of guiding, or S&R. 'Serious' dirtbagging would be pretty hard considering the lack of $$ (or resources in general), but there's certainly good minimalist lessons to be learned from it IMO. Â I like your attitude. I would like to suggest you go for the minimalist thing. Shit bro, serious dirt bagging takes very little cash, it's beer, drugs, gas and the goodies you can live w/o that cost the most$. Fuck, most of the people on the planet are already there. It's transportation that really starts adding the cost up. If your really good at entertaining yourself, maybe with some small cash making craft on rest days or not, and you can really handle isolation and being alone, shit dude theres all kinds of places you could go alpine Rambo and even some that are actually close to shit. Have a base camp near enough the mountains and near enough town so you can bicycle or hitch or drive. Go for it, don't die living like a zombie. You won't die, maybe some really hard knocks but you will live and learn. PM me if you want the name of this place I know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvallisclimb Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 just don't get a goddamn drum, hula-hoop, and slack-line or i'll bust out my drum-knife  namaste bitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 why are you thinking of the context of the first world? Â On a US dirtbag budget you can live well in the 3rd world (or 2nd) Peru, Chile, Argentina, Thailand, C. Asia, China, India... there's a whole world that isn't expensive. Many of the places I mentioned don't require permits at all for "lower" objectives. Â Oh, and ditch the booze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhux Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 why are you thinking of the context of the first world? On a US dirtbag budget you can live well in the 3rd world  Good point...but how do you afford alpine climbing in South America? How do you even get gear down there...? Sure its been done/can be done though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Learn to wait tables and ride a bike allot and you can cruise thru life pretty casually and for not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 just walk around with ur index finger pointing to the sky screaming "I NEED A MIRACLE" a dirtbag is born Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfinley Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 This hilarious response comes to mind:  LOA dude LOA get a job that allows you to have leave of absence then you dont have to worry about all these hypothetical situations and furthermore you dont have to buy into this its a once in a life time opportunity  FUCK THAT  How about work for 8 months and travel for 4 with cash and all that comes with it, hotels, pussy, good food, high end climbing...  Then you can just come back to work and start planning the next trip..  I am on to my fourth motorbiking and climbing trip to the Alps and Northern Africa again this summer...think 30 pitch rock climbs then beautiful spanish/Italian puss to work out the kinks afterwards...or you can sleep in your truck eating old pizza jerkin off  get a job with LOA and live the life, all you have to remember is to pull out cause kids will put a huge damper on this type of fun http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/950884/2/Biting_the_bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 if ya gotta ask.... Â personally I do the most and my strongest climbing not when i'm on the road, but when i'm based out of somewhere and my training and recovery are more easily facilitated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketz Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 i have not worked fulltime or lived anywhere for more then 8 months since i was 17. sal is right to say you climb harder when you have a good basecamp...but training/climbing becomes stagnet if you stay in the same region too long. the idealistic shit is waste of time. keep your head down low make sacrifices never say no and remembers no one really cares! Â i'd say good luck, but luck has nothing todo with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainmandoug Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I lived in a van and climbed a lot for a few years, and it's certainly do-able. Climbing does cost money for a variety of things, and the permits are the least of it. Living in a car you can succeed in never paying for camping if you do it well, and you can live pretty much anywhere. You will end up spending more for gas than anything else. Â You need to make money somehow. Guiding is not a very good way, it doesn't pay that great for how much time it takes. You should guide because you like taking people into the mountains and providing them with that experience, that's really the only reason. It's not fun climbing and you could make more money painting houses or driving a tour bus or swinging a hammer. Â I think there are two reasons people don't dirtbag long-term. One is that very few people have the tolerance for the stress of constant itinerancy. For a while it is fun to get up every morning and decide what you want to do, but after a few months or a year you will start to be tired of having to constantly decide from so many possibilities. Freedom is stressful and routine is restful. Income is also restful . The freedom also tends to reduce ambition and productivity, i.e. you'll be less motivated to go climb something now because you can always go climb it later. Â The other reason is that it tends to be lonely. If you have been in school all of your life you don't yet know how much more deliberate you have to be about friendships once that structure is gone. Constantly moving makes it hard to stay consistently in touch with people and stay connected. Meeting new people all of the time can be fun, but it is no substitute for people who know you well that you feel at home with. "Happiness is only real if it is shared" was the final line in the movie "Into the Wild." It seems that most people eventually find that they want to consistently share there happiness with the same people, and generally one person in particular, that requires some element of stability. Â When you are dirt-bagging on savings with somewhat of a plan and timeline and a relational home to go back to, it can be really awesome. Some people build a rhythm around seasonal employment, regular partners and places that is sustainable for them. Many find that they actually want more in life than just constantly climbing, and go pursue that. Â I definitely recommend taking a big chunk of time to go climb a lot at some point, but I'm sceptical that you actually would want to do that for the rest of your life. Â The rising cost of gas and food is effecting that sort of life-style as well, and realistically the gear costs a lot to. Going overseas might be more economically viable than staying stateside, although it's relationally more challenging. I figure I'll get that in at some point, although I think I might want to find a SO who wants to go along first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 definitely do the seasonal USFS/BLM thing. then you have half the year, and still have a job when you are over the dirtbagging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The guy who taught me how to climb back in the early 90's would work as a smoke jumper till he made $20k, then dirtbag all around the world for the rest of the year. He was also very shrewd with his money and did things like take his student loans and invest them in higher earning investments. Of course, investing is another form of gambling, so he did not always come out ahead on those deals. Most of the time he did well and was able to pay back the student loans and score a chunk of cash to boot. I did the seasonal thing for a decade when I was in my twenties... Spent my summers in Denali and my winters in the ski industry. My favorite time of year was between seasonal jobs and I was once again "homeless and unemployed". Ah, the good ole days. Just be creative and open to the opportunities that present themselves. Sometimes our grand plans are not realized but we can still succeed if we go with the flow and make something happen. (IMHO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Interesting responses...I think what I really meant was a minimalist lifestyle via seasonal employment, probably in the form of guiding, or S&R. 'Serious' dirtbagging would be pretty hard considering the lack of $$ (or resources in general), but there's certainly good minimalist lessons to be learned from it IMO. Â Bob "the Atheist" Athey, one of the world's most perseverent ski bums used to work during the warm, dry months as a homebuilder. Don't know exactly what he did, hanging sheet-rock, siding, framing, or something like that. Come winter, when the market dried up, he'd take a layoff and ski on unemployment all winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Skilled construction (electrician, plumber, ..) was the way to comfortably play half the year but I doubt it is still the case these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhrmabum Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I will second, or third, the opinion of what many have already mentioned: Seasonal work! Great way to go, imo. In my college days,(and before/after), I worked at a ski area in Cal. Worked out nicely for my long winter break/spring break, after college, etc. Worked up in Alaska during the summers, fish canneries and in Denali. Wasn't exactly "dirtbaggin," per se,(not built around climbing), but I did do my fair share of hitchhiking around, sleeping in parks, living out of a tent in Alaska, etc. all to minimize my expenditures. Fun stuff. Working vacations. Â Also, what others have mentioned, doing the seasonal thing allows for a nice base from which to play, whether it was skiing/hiking(the Eastern Sierra for me), or working and then hiking my ass off up in Denali. Along with the social relationships developed. And, the before/after work time is great for traveling. I used to do bike tours, New England in the fall, Canadian Rockies en route to Ak, etc. Good stuff. Nice to have the luxury of some money made from the seasonal job to make it all happen. Anyway, my two cents. Best o' luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's a great life while it lasts but you need an exit strategy. For every Beckey there's a couple Chongos and Dave Thomsons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Larry Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I'm an old cow but a lot of people keep bringing up how expensive the gear is. Let's have a discussion on how little $ you need to spend to start out with if you don't buy into the latest greatest most expensive gizmo mindset. This guy is just starting out, does he really need the most expensive hardware and software? Start small and make due until you really have to have it, beg and borrow and don't be ashamed to do it. It's easy to get too caught up in all the catalogs and gear porno--it's cool and looks exciting. Stay focused on the climbing more than the gear, don't become a GEAR HEAD like me (a lot of mis-spent $ on gear I will never wear out or did not have to have), it's a waste of time and $, especially at my age. There are a lot of people ,like myself, that have lots of extra stuff just sitting in their closets collecting dust, or they're thinking about how much they will get for it--not (half retail, if your lucky and it's in demand-- if it ever was to begin with). It's not bad or unsafe gear, just not the latest, greatest gizmo. Your not putting yourself in a life and death hair bending situation to start with, at least I hope your not. I live in Salem and will give you some of it if you pretend to listen to my BS. PM me. Edited February 22, 2011 by Lucky Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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