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orion_sonya

Little Si Fixed Draws

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Hola fellow sport wankers,

 

Most of the fixed draws at WWI have been replaced today along with the worst of the old bolts and chain link hangers. If anyone had project draws or fixed draws that they want back send me a PM. If I don't hear from you prior to spring, the salvageable goods will be used for cluttering some other back woods crag.

 

Orion

 

 

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Did you install those cable-draws with the clear green tubing over the wire? I had noticed that those were becoming quite popular... Just curious. Thanks for hooking up new hardware :)

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Thanks for the service, Orion. The quicklink on the draw on Bust the Move was pretty scary.

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you know ANYONE can swap out fixed draws or hardware. if you use it you should be part of the solution as well as the problem. why not carry some of that crap in your own pack and spend a few minutes replacing things you find scary or crap!

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Did you install those cable-draws with the clear green tubing over the wire? I had noticed that those were becoming quite popular... Just curious. Thanks for hooking up new hardware :)

 

 

 

Yup, those are the ones.

 

PermaDraw-Set_600-2.jpg

 

A big thanks to Climbtech who gave us a sweet deal on their Perma-draws as well as the folks who donated their time and money to the cause.

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Thanks for the service, Orion. The quicklink on the draw on Bust the Move was pretty scary.

 

Hmm, I am not entirely sure we got to that one! We are scheduling a follow-up day this winter to tie up lose ends and I will make sure that gets attention if it didn't this weekend.

 

Orion

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you know ANYONE can swap out fixed draws or hardware. if you use it you should be part of the solution as well as the problem. why not carry some of that crap in your own pack and spend a few minutes replacing things you find scary or crap!

 

Good point. I have invested my time and hardware, though mostly on different crags. And you?

 

Orion, thanks. It's the one that protects the crux that looked like it was wearing thin. Just needs a new quicklink.

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

Every crag develops its own community, ethics, and style, which may change over time. If you want a voice on how things are run, show up and lead by example.

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Every crag develops its own community, ethics, and style, which may change over time. If you want a voice on how things are run, show up and lead by example.

 

I stand by my comments which I believe are universally applicable. I encourage that anyone with similar views to my own avoid and, in fact, boycott areas that maintain such "communities" with such "ethics" and "style"...if you're up to it.

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

 

Dude, seriously? Your a grumpy ol' wanker. I can picture the walls of your room- covered in posters of modern sport pro's sending hard routes on fixed draws, with dart holes and targets painted on the faces. Holes in the wall. Dark red lighting- aside from the bright glow of your CC.com homepage. errrrr....

 

"you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice!" - Exactly Raindawg. So you don't have to climb here, since you can choose!

 

 

 

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Fixed draws have long been an accepted part of the Little Si climbing walls. Opinions aside, they're there, and the climbers who come out expect them.

 

I think props are in order for taking the money and effort to make sure the gear is safe and maintained for future climbs. Thanks!

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true. "dude

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

 

Dude, seriously? Your a grumpy ol' wanker. I can picture the walls of your room- covered in posters of modern sport pro's sending hard routes on fixed draws, with dart holes and targets painted on the faces. Holes in the wall. Dark red lighting- aside from the bright glow of your CC.com homepage. errrrr....

 

"you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice!" - Exactly Raindawg. So you don't have to climb here, since you can choose!

 

yah,dude...no worries I won't be "hanging out" there. (literally, like so many of you in rehearsal/siege mode..hanging off your fixed pro until you wire it into submission!)

 

....but true to form, the best you can come up with as a response is some sort of curious/fantasy personal attack?...true to form, "dude"! Leave your mess everywhere, eh? The rest of the outdoor world has passed you by. Even snowmobilers tend to pick up their beer cans these days!.

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

:sick: Blah blah blah

 

Raindog no likey bolts, got it.

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hell ya...fixed draws. I can use the smith rock motto now.

1 year to toprope my project into submission.

1 year to redpoint.

if i don't redpoint then i have to take a year off and then repeat

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a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

no, not really. it's simply a convenience thing. nothing more, nothing less. one can clip and remove draws off a route of any difficulty.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

can you cite the "growing number of cases"? i'm honestly curious, since i do have some concern about this.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

rock and ice? that sporto rag? didn't read it. what it say?

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I look forward to discussing it with you at the crag sometime.

 

Cheers,

Orion

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steel to nylon has near identical lifespan. that comes from a industrial construction standpoint.

 

I'm curious what you mean here. Observation in the field suggests that chain or cable far outlasts nylon webbing, especially with UV in the mix.

 

And hey ya'll, Raindawg has made his made his obligatory point, and he's right that he's not the only one who feels that way. However, most of those folks don't climb at Little Si. Please don't engage in the reet reet reet pointless character banter on the subject, this isn't Spray and it doesn't contribute to the conversation. Odds are that this is a difference of opinion that no amount of online back-and-forth will change, so just take it in and move along, perhaps considering that this particular tactic is not universally desirable.

 

Props to Orion & crew for the time and energy put into this project, I really appreciate a thing done well.

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And hey ya'll, Raindawg has made his made his obligatory point, and he's right that he's not the only one who feels that way. However, most of those folks don't climb at Little Si.

 

this debate might get tiresome for many, but it is still a discussion that isn't entirely pointless. public policy changes through discussion (and action), and even a seemingly mundane and idiotic online sequence of the same old same old has the potential to lead to these changes.

 

in other words, it isn't just about little si, as it isn't just about this discussion being a dead horse.

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i was hiking up there sunday and saw some dude from colorado with a beard and looked like he was cleaning alot of the draws off the routes. he kept mumbling about being kicked out of smithrock for some reason.

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Thanks for replacing those sketchy chain-link "hangers"! I hated the damn things, putting a prying load on an expansion bolt...

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I've been climbing off and on at Little Si since 1995, and there was no "tradition" of fixed draws then. I saw you all coming down the trail in the downpour on Saturday and while I appreciate the effort in crappy wx, I also think fixed draws create visual clutter that doesn't help the sport with non-participants and some participants, creates extra maintenance and risk, and is completely unnecessary.

 

So not "everyone" expects fixed draws there, or even wants them.

 

And the position that an opinion doesn't count unless it's given while sending a route of proper difficulty just exacerbates the problem that the sport climbing community has with the larger land-use community: There are plenty of people who will see bright blue-clad permadraws hanging off a cliff along their hike and complain directly to land managers. You think their opinion doesn't count or affect policy?

 

In the same light, walking down the trail while drinking beer doesn't do anything to help our position with the non-climbing community, either.

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Time for the alternative perspective you "open-minded" blokes won't tolerate. As if your self-gratifying, "free-stylin'", sport-bolting wasn't bad enough, you brag about replacing the fixed draws.

Consider this but I'm sure most of you won't because it addresses your dumbed-down, leave a big trace version of "climbing" as less them "sporting".

 

a) fixed draws only emphasize the fact that the climb is too difficult for you because you aren't able to clip and remove your own garbage.

 

b) you're taking chances anytime you clip someone else's stuff or jug their fixed lines. Your choice! There are a growing number of cases that prove this true.

 

c) read the interesting comments about "PermaDraws" in the latest Rock 'n Ice. Not everyone thinks the concept is cool.

 

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I look forward to discussing it with you at the crag sometime.

 

Cheers,

Orion

You won't be seeing Raindawg or any of the whiners at Little Si or Smith Rock. They don't climb anymore. or if they do, doubtful if it reaches the 5.6 scale but they certainly like to judge people, thats their thing, not climbing. What are you thinking Orion trying to climb a route that may be to diffcult for you? You should be like these guys, and participate in "Assured Outcome" climbing.

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