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Craig Pope

memorize this face!!!

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I happen to agree with the previous two posts. At Smith it is accepted practice to leave draws on a climb/project. In 90's Alan Watts was leaving ropes up to finish developing climbs. I have to admit I've left mine at a number of places for a few days to a couple of months while working lines.

 

Violence isn't the answer and neither is stealing.

:yoda:

 

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Those parables speak volumes and are well placed here.

This situation is a little *different* than your's and johnny's situation was, don't you agree?

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A few years ago a friend and I were at Smith and we cleaned all of the crap off the east face of the Monkey. It looked great! Then we went and cleaned all of the crap off of The Big R and The Starvation Fruit. I also pulled old abandoned fixed lines off of a bunch of abandoned projects at Smith. No matter how much crap gets pulled off of the walls at Smith, more crap gets put up there. Bolts that I place or replace are crap, draws are crap, fixed lines are crap, chalk is crap. And it all seems like quite a waste of time to me these days. The hours you all spend bullshitting about it seems like even more of a waste of time than actually going out and putting more crap on the cliffs so people can go take it down when you lose interest in your hobby or you have kids and a wife and can't go climbing anymore. Don't let that happen. Get a fucking vascectomy.

 

I hate seeing fixed draws everywhere at Smith. In my opinion they should all be pulled. But who am I. I'm just one climber who has spent way too many hours there.

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I hate seeing fixed draws everywhere at Smith. In my opinion they should all be pulled. But who am I. I'm just one climber who has spent way too many hours there.

 

I don't need to listen to you if you don't climb 5.14

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This is a win-win-win for all parties involved.

The guy "stealing" the draws is now a celebrity.

The smith rock hardmen who's gear got ripped were able to sieze the opportunity to display, document, and flaunt that they climb (or at least own a stick clip) smith rock 5.14 (big wow), and we all get to posture, rant, judge, one-up eachother, and spray about it.

 

So what's the issue?

 

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i think the whole enchilada is awesome, all these douce bags crying. every single one of ya! it's all situational, kinda like the abortion this topic repersents!!

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I happen to agree with the previous two posts. At Smith it is accepted practice to leave draws on a climb/project. In 90's Alan Watts was leaving ropes up to finish developing climbs.

 

It started at least a decade before the '90's and it remains the worst thing that ever happened to American climbing. Climbers should have been smart enough and embraced "clean-climbing" rather than being seduced by the dumb-downed, cheap-gratifications of rap-bolted sport-"climbing".

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i think the whole enchilada is awesome, all these douce bags crying. every single one of ya! it's all situational, kinda like the abortion this topic repersents!!

 

And it didn't stop YOU from replying! Cry away and add you to the mix!

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Did the gentleman in the video give the gear back???

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Well somebody should make a call over to Miguels in the RRG to let the climbers know they should take down the Hundreds of draws hanging from each crag. As far as im concerned, fixed draws go hand in hand with bolts, at sport crags that feature *high quality* bolted routes of a difficult grade. I personally love walking up to the motherlode cave, or to the driveby crag in the red and seeing draws hanging/ chalked holds. Gets me psyched to climb hard. Other destinations across the country are worthy too. Such as smith. Just my honest opinion. Keyword: opinion (so simmer down there, future "quoter")

 

Actually in 2002 the NPS addressed fixed draws in the Obed Climbing Management plan and while not banning them, they said they need to blend in with the area. However in 2005 they went a step further and banned fixed draws at the New. It's only a matter of time before a similar management policy is applied to USFS lands.

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Well somebody should make a call over to Miguels in the RRG to let the climbers know they should take down the Hundreds of draws hanging from each crag. As far as im concerned, fixed draws go hand in hand with bolts, at sport crags that feature *high quality* bolted routes of a difficult grade. I personally love walking up to the motherlode cave, or to the driveby crag in the red and seeing draws hanging/ chalked holds. Gets me psyched to climb hard. Other destinations across the country are worthy too. Such as smith. Just my honest opinion. Keyword: opinion (so simmer down there, future "quoter")

 

 

Actually in 2002 the NPS addressed fixed draws in the Obed Climbing Management plan and while not banning them, they said they need to blend in with the area. However in 2005 they went a step further and banned fixed draws at the New. It's only a matter of time before a similar management policy is applied to USFS lands.

 

Good post. I was climbing today in an area that once had fixed draws but they got taken down by the route openers because the crag had sensitive access issues. I'm not against fixed draws as I have left them up on my projects for months at a time but these new cable draws that are sprouting up at crags all over have these hideous bright green plastic covers that stand out like sore thumbs. The company should manufacture the covers in gray if nothing else to keep hikers and rangers happy.

 

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I hate seeing fixed draws everywhere at Smith. In my opinion they should all be pulled. But who am I. I'm just one climber who has spent way too many hours there.

 

I don't need to listen to you if you don't climb 5.14

A few years ago a friend and I were at Smith and we cleaned all of the crap off the east face of the Monkey. It looked great! Then we went and cleaned all of the crap off of The Big R and The Starvation Fruit. I also pulled old abandoned fixed lines off of a bunch of abandoned projects at Smith. No matter how much crap gets pulled off of the walls at Smith, more crap gets put up there. Bolts that I place or replace are crap, draws are crap, fixed lines are crap, chalk is crap. And it all seems like quite a waste of time to me these days. The hours you all spend bullshitting about it seems like even more of a waste of time than actually going out and putting more crap on the cliffs so people can go take it down when you lose interest in your hobby or you have kids and a wife and can't go climbing anymore. Don't let that happen. Get a fucking vascectomy.

 

I hate seeing fixed draws everywhere at Smith. In my opinion they should all be pulled. But who am I. I'm just one climber who has spent way too many hours there.

 

Clearly you need to head to Beacon. They take all comers there...

 

:lmao: Better hurry, only a couple weeks left to get yer bacon on...

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No sarcasm intended....I would like to know the reason(s) people leave draws on a route?

Edited by luvshaker

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there is probably as many reasons as there are climbers who leave them.

 

One that I can think of- for extremely overhanging terrain, it is too hard to clean the draws while being lowered.

 

Others have said it was a convenience for other sport climbers.

 

This is just conjecture as I have never been on ground where it wasn't easy to clean the gear off. Hard sport is not my bag.

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If you are trying to lead a hard climb but only can get to say bolt #4 and keep falling, fixed draws allow you to pull the rope and walk away without leaving a draw of your own.

It eliminates the loss of draws by indivual climbers by dedicating draws to the climb initially, a community service.

It allows those climbers who cannot onsite a climb( usually 5.13 and up) to give the hard climbs a try without being penalized other then taking a fall.

Fixed draws are also nice on very overhanging routes where if you fall off you cannot get back on the rock and are required to lower off to the ground. Again, you can pull the rope and not have to leave gear.

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No sarcasm intended....I would like to know the reason(s) people leave draws on a route?

 

i'm confident that the majority of people who leave draws on a route do so because they know how much it will irritate raindawg. as i understand it, sport climbing was developed for precisely this purpose and leaving draws is just another way in which the universe conspires to make him unhappy.

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Does annoying Raindawg follow a scale like climbing?

 

 

  • Simple = R.1 to R.9
  • Complicated R.10a, R.10b,..., R.15c

 

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Does annoying Raindawg follow a scale like climbing?

 

 

  • Simple = R.1 to R.9
  • Complicated R.10a, R.10b,..., R.15c

 

Let's not even get into the X ratings.

R.9x

If you fail to make your point or win the argument, you die. It's like a death topic! :lmao:

Edited by Plaidman

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If you are trying to lead a hard climb but only can get to say bolt #4 and keep falling, fixed draws allow you to pull the rope and walk away without leaving a draw of your own.

It eliminates the loss of draws by indivual climbers by dedicating draws to the climb initially, a community service.

It allows those climbers who cannot onsite a climb( usually 5.13 and up) to give the hard climbs a try without being penalized other then taking a fall.

Fixed draws are also nice on very overhanging routes where if you fall off you cannot get back on the rock and are required to lower off to the ground. Again, you can pull the rope and not have to leave gear.

If climbers would use good bolts in this country (glue-in eye bolts)and get away from using crappy Rawls and standard hangers then they could lower off of any bolt and not leave any biners behind. Or you can use the retrieveable webbing loop trick and not leave anything on any type of hanger.

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