divnamite Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Last year, I got to play with Grivel Matrix Light a little and while I didn't climb hard with them, I definitely like them. I figure I'll play with them more this year. I researched a little, it seems there are basically four models out there: Black Diamond Venom Petzl Aztarex Grivel Matrix Light Grivel Quantum Light I think all of them can be fitted with trigger and grip rest. Anyone climb with these tools? comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 you might need to define alpine ice a bit. There is a lot of variety in term of alpine ice such that for some routes, your tools listed are not good options. I've been on some alpine ice where the regular mtn axe 60 cm was better than the reverse curve ice tool.(N face maude and buckner come to mind) While a iced up gulley would be a good terrain for your listed tools. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Old BD Rage tools are pretty alpine sweet and do nice work on the WI too, just switch heads for the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 If you are even contemplating putting on a griprest/trigger, then you might as well bypass all that stuff and look at (the newest versions of): Â Petzl Quark Petzl Nomic Black Diamond Viper Black Diamond Cobra Black Diamond Fusion DMM Rebel etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Black Diamond Venom Petzl Aztarex Grivel Matrix Light Grivel Quantum Light I think all of them can be fitted with trigger and grip rest. Anyone climb with these tools? comments? Â All are similar tools, only one (Petzl has a grip rest) is made to have a trigger or a grip rest. If you think you want a grip rest and trigger step up to tools that have them installed from the factory. Â Nothing wrong with any of your choices for moderate snow and easy ice but I would not call any of them alpine ice tools, more all around mtn axes I would think. Â It aint the arrow, it is the indian when it comes to climbing alpine ice with any of these tools. Â Dave's excellent article is worth the read and may help. Â http://cascadeclimbers.com/ice/gear/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I have climbed AI3+ with a Grivel Air Tech and an Alp Light hammer. And really, I don't recommend it - the Air Tech doesn't have enough heft to swing well. Really, if you're looking for an alpine tool, you're better off going with a leashless tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSky Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I have the Matrix Light (and Tech for that matter) and consider them technical mountaineering axes. They can and do climb vertical just fine, but as Dane alluded to, a factory rest is far preferable to the sliders/horns for long days of swinging. For "mountaineery" gully routes with short vertical steps or similar I consider the Matrix Light style tools to be ideal. If that's your game I'd say you're on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Piston Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I'm with Dane and BigSky on this question. I have the BD Venoms and love them for alpine climbs that are mostly steep firm snow and a little bit of ice. But, they are too light for sustained ice for me, and make me wish for "real" ice tools, like my BD Vipers, if it gets vertical or full pitches of ice. It really is about the skill and comfort level of the "indian". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfinger Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Have heard the shaft on the Quantum tools is really slippery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Whenever my shaft gets slippery, I put some sticky tape on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Whenever my shaft gets slippery, I put some sticky tape on it. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divnamite Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 Oops, forgot this thread. Anyway, my example would be climbs like Liberty Ridge, maybe Eastern Sierra alpine ice/snow routes like V-notch, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinnikinnick Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) besides the question of durability, i'm curious why a factory-installed grip rest is preferable to horns/sliders? Edited November 3, 2010 by kinnikinnick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 besides the question of durability, i'm curious why a factory-installed grip rest is preferable to horns/sliders? Â Durability is a big deal. Needs to last the climb...hopefully a couple of seasons. Some of the factory ones won't. You can see how your effort might handle it. Â The idea behind good leashless tools is they are ergonmic...meaning they fit your body. Most manufactures have made an effort to design that way and come up with a cleaner ways to do things that last longer and more importantly fit your hand and support you better. Â I have lost count of the grip supports I have added to different tools. Some I even really liked. But hard to compare any of them with just the simple TRIGrest that Petzl now sells that is easy to bolt on. Â But good leashless tools aren't just one hand support but a tool designed around leashless climbing. If you want to climb leashless get a tool designed to do so...and save yourself a lot of effort. Which is the only reason to climb leashless in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinnikinnick Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 thanks for the response, dane. i agree that durability is important. was curious if there were other reasons why a factory grip rest is ideal: i just upgraded my alp wings to a leashless system using the attachable, non-moveable yellow horn made by grivel, and i'm starting to think i should go back to using the leashes if i want to climb on alp wings. for one, the horn covers the spike clip in hole for umbilicals. this leaves me the option of threading cord (~5mm diameter) through a small hole on the horn, but if the horn or cord breaks, no good at all. i could also thread cord through a small hole on the shaft about 4 inches from the spike bottom, but then the umbilical carabiner is all up on my grip. what do you think about all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pms Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) another nice axe with a griprest is the CAMP alpaxe. nice the way the grip rest can be changed quickly while climbing. Â I've climbed a fair bit with the aztarex also, and have been quite happy with them on both water ice and snow. Edited November 3, 2010 by pms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 "and i'm starting to think i should go back to using the leashes"  Not something any of us wants to hear. The leashless tool technology is just getting started I think. The problem with that is while we now have some amazing, specifically designed, leashless tools we also have all sorts of tools with half assed systems to make leashed tools leashless. Doesn't always work all that well from my experience.  Fastest way to get bummed on leashless climbing is trying it on a half assed leashless tool and a bad umbilical hook up  Hey most of us have already been there and tried that. Didn't work for us either.  My answer is I use a fairly common tool with a straight shaft and a leash when appropriate and a set of high clearence leashless of tools for harder climbing.  Some times that means I'll carry three tools (two Nomics and a short lwt axe) to cover the extremes of what I am trying to do...but it gives me a lot of options.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenwesh Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 speaking of nomics! anyone have a pair of the old ones they really want to get rid of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrox Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 speaking of nomics! anyone have a pair of the old ones they really want to get rid of? Â http://www.mountainproject.com/v/for_sale__wanted/fs_nomics/106948823 Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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