chris Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) Along with getting a new pair of tools this winter, I'm rethinking my crampons. This isn't a mono v dual point, but strap/hybrid versus clip-in/automatic/pro. For years I've been using strap and hybrid (toe strap, heel bail) crampons for summer alpine ice, and clip/auto/pro (toe bail, heel bail). Now I'm wondering - do I really need a separate pair of crampons for winter ice? Edited October 10, 2010 by chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loomis Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hi Chris, I think others would tend to agree with me by saying that the answer to your question lies in how far you want to go with your technical ice climbing--which only you can answer. If you do not see yourself following/leading anything harder than say WI3/3+ or thereabouts, then a less precise fitting pair of crampons is adequate (though not excellent). But in general as one moves into WI4 and more difficult terrain then you will find you want the precise and secure fit of technical crampons--less vibration, less shifting of the crampon on the boot, full translation of kick energy into crampon points, etc. For me this means a toe and heel bail, sizing the crampon to exactly my boot, plus a few other minor features. Others may feel differently but that is my thought. Cheers, Bob Loomis, Spokane, WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) Hmmm, has anyone climbed WI4/5 in pair of hybrid (toe strap, heel bail) lately? I'm with Bob right now - I'm comfortable and solid on WI4, and challenge myself on WI5, and I've been using these Rambocomps for years. I got a pair of BD Cyborg Clip crampons (toe strap, heel bail) for my summer climbing and wondering if I really need a second pair, but with the toe bail for the winter. Right now I'm leaning toward that second pair, but thought someone might be able to tell me different. Edited October 10, 2010 by chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_e Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Bob is spot on. The hybrid crampons are fine for glacier travel and lower angle ice/moderate alpine, however if it you want to climb more steep ice having crampons that fit well is critical. If you ever get a chance try a pair of fruit boots or any boot with bolt-ons and you will truly understand the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hmmm, has anyone climbed WI4/5 in pair of hybrid (toe strap, heel bail) lately? Nothing terribly hard but my partner used a pair of BD hybreds to solo 4 pitches of this last winter. And he has the choice of climbing on any crampon he chooses as his job. House and Anderson on Nanga Parbat. House photo. Hybreds work fine at any level of techncal difficulty. They can have some distinct advanatges and can be more secure and easier to put on and take off in some instances than a bale as long as you take the time to fit your boots correctly. A proper fit in either style binding is the key. It is worth noting that few if any modern crampons fit boots now as well as earlier fully adjustable rigids did. Those old rigids used straps to attach the crampons to the boots and a perfect crampon fit to the boot sole. That system put up many of the first WI6 routes around the world. Rigid soled boots have allowed the manufactures to fudge a bit on crampon fit. Clip-ons are dependant of boot soles for fit. Front and rear bales vary in size and how they fit as do the boot toes and heels. Crampon boot interface can determine the performance of the crampon almost as much as the crampon design. Don't assume a factory set of wires front and back are always the best setup for your specific set of boots. The crampon companies are continually rethinking the crampon bales to better match the boots as the boot sole designs change. Classic example where a hybred might well be a better answer. As long as you have front points and a reasonable fit to your boots I've found that the ice tools you choose will have a much bigger influence on what grade you climb at comfortably than crampons. I also have found that beyond both sets of tools the boots I use on ice can have as big of impact as the tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 somewhere there is a picture of House on the North Face of The North Twin when he lost the shell to one of his boots .. clearly using G14's mono points with toe straps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Those photos settled it for me, I think. I'm going to try to do a trial run in the hybrid Cyborgs I already own, and if they aren't adequate, I'll bump up to a toe bail version. I'm also going to try to climb more in my lighter Scarpa Charmoz boots and use the Nepal Extremes only when the cold demands it. Thanks for the opinions - it helped solidify my decision. Edited October 11, 2010 by chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannible Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I've used hybrids for a lot of WI4 and mixed to M6. On 4s and 5s I've always been a lot more stressed out about the poor fitting plastic boots I had been using than my crampons (though I've only used clip ons for wi5 I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groupb Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 What are those two boots pictured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) Well, in the picture of House it looks like a pair La Sportiva Nepal Extremes. Edited November 16, 2010 by chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Two boots pictured in this thread.. La Spotiva Nuptse on both House and Anderson climbing Nanga Parbat. The other pictures is a new Scarpa 6000 and a pair of Dartwins. Billy in the orange BD helmet, red jacket and chromed Fusions is using La Sportiva Nepal Evos...but you can't see them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Is that Bill Belcourt holding the chromed out Fusions? I met him a couple weeks ago and IIRC he told me there are only 2 pairs of them in existence. It must be nice being the hardgoods manager for BD... it's the little perks that make you smile On a more gear-related topic - Got a recommendation for fitting crampon bales to the new Scarpa boots? I've got a similarly "loose" fit with my Phantom Guides and SS Cyborgs and Sabertooths. I was just going to use a hammer and a bench vise, unless you have a more elegant suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 I heard that there is a new bale coming out from BD in the near future. But till then the Petzl bail solves most of it on the Scarpas. Bending might make it work on the Guides as they have a lot thicker sole to work with than the Ultra or 6000. Sitting here myself thinking I'll need to some serious bending work on the Petzl bails for the Ultras. Fit as is is funky. Boots move to the outside of the pon. Chrome Fusions? I think most love the Fusion so much they get wood just rubbing against them. Once the green is gone I think they are chrome underneath Must be hundreds of chrome Fusions out there after just one winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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