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dberdinka

The rhyme and reason behind falcon closures?

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Well, if my wife was a lawyer she may not care, but I'd still be getting legal advice on the matter, regardless. If your wife doesn't care then how about Bryan, he's an environmental attorney - though of course he plays for the other team.

 

i don't think it's cool for u too bring kevbones wife or bryan into this, or am i jst fucking nuts??? how many extra days have you gotta the rock open since you have been doing what you say you do???

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So I dont really check the site too often, but I just noticed this. I have no interest in getting involved in the Beacon Rock arguments so back to the original postings. There are two birds the climbers in the northwest really need to think about. The peregrine is the most common, and there is a ton of known research and studies about them. If the bird scientists say 500ft then there is probably a good reason for it. I personally find it enjoyable to see peregrines at climbing areas and the closures are not that big of a deal. If you are super pissed off that one climbing area is closed due to birds you need to branch out a little more and think about climbing some routes you have never climbed before.

 

Golden Eagles are another bird that cliffs are getting closed for. I have done some work with these birds so I know a little more about them.

Goldens need a much bigger closure area than peregrines. So its possible the Zion closures are for them. If a golden eagle sees you heading to toward a nest the adult will often leave the nest before you ever see them. They will not return until you are done climbing so it is entirely possible a climber could cause a golden eagle nest to fail without ever seeing the bird. One trip to a cliff with a golden eagle nest could be the end of the chicks. There is a nest at China Bend here in Washington that has failed for the last 7 years due to climbers. There is also a very healthy population of goldens at Tieton, and a couple at smith. I have been working directly with the raptor biologist for WA fish and wildlife so if anyone has any specific questions let me know.

Just to clarify everyone elses answers, yes almost all birds are protected under the migratory species act.

 

Thanks for mentioning golden eagles Alasdair. They are in serious trouble and are extremely sensitive to disturbance.

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don't goldens get a big closure at smith? seem to recall seeing really cool, giant nests walking back from the marsupials this summer 'round the monument area

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It's very rare to see a golden out at Beacon. I suspect the place is just too busy and the Peregrines defend it pretty heavily. Never seen an eagle of any kind on the rock itself. Young bald eagles from the nest in the Hamilton Creek basin come hang out on the towers around the slough out in front of Beacon every year, but not on the rock itself.

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]

 

i don't think it's cool for u too bring kevbones wife or bryan into this, or am i jst fucking nuts???

 

bryans gay??? who knew :noway:

 

A interesting juxtapostion of thought

 

Shouldn't all this be shuffled off to the Columbia River Gorge thread, since the Portland crowd has taken over this tyhread, and turned it into their own sandbox replete with toddler poo?

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don't goldens get a big closure at smith? seem to recall seeing really cool, giant nests walking back from the marsupials this summer 'round the monument area

 

Yes Ivan there is a huge old nest there. Golden Eagle nest sites like falcon aeries can be used for hundreds of years. I have read of gyrfalcon nests in Greenland that have prey remains documenting shifts in prey over the last few hundreds of years. This is one of the reason that agencies protect falcon nest sites. Once successful nest site is established by a pair they and may be used the site for the rest of their reproductive life.

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don't goldens get a big closure at smith? seem to recall seeing really cool, giant nests walking back from the marsupials this summer 'round the monument area

 

no sport climbing for you ;)

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don't goldens get a big closure at smith? seem to recall seeing really cool, giant nests walking back from the marsupials this summer 'round the monument area

 

no sport climbing for you ;)

dunno...that great roof route kinda FELT like a sport climb :)

 

golden eagles in their kingly cliff-forts are much kewler than peregrines, which are more like miniature avian republicans w/ wings w/ their charming mixture of aggressivness and sense of entitlement to everything they can see - that and they seem to have small dicks and a hard time getting even that up without feeling an intense need to go off and pout :)

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i don't think it's cool for u too bring kevbones wife or bryan into this, or am i jst fucking nuts???

Wait a minute - you guys, and Kevin and Jim in particular, have had biannual seizures over the closure like clockwork for the past fourteen years without doing jack about it. I come along, get tired of listening to all the incessant whining and finally make the mistake of looking into it all. And the instant you make that mistake - aside from suddenly being up to your neck in a whole new grand levels of bullshit - you are immediately into the law and the policy that flows from it.

 

Don't like the closure? Want to change or eliminate it? Cool, welcome to federal and Washington state law. And unless I'm way off the mark, it's always better to work with lawyers when you head into that territory if you want better odds of getting stuff done. Last I checked Maggie and Bryan are lawyers and good ones.

 

I find it amazing you guys actually have the audacity to say shit about any of my statements around what can or can't be done about the closure without a) bothering looking into it all yourselves in any realistic, detailed way, b) sitting down and talking with all the agency personnel responsible for implementing and enforcing the policy, and c) using any and all legal or agency resources you know who might actually be able to better understand the relevant laws and could help determine what options are open to climbers.

 

So it's not cool to talk to lawyers we know about the closure law? What are you saying, that it's really just all about the incessant whining and our identity as 'victims' of the closure that's what's important instead of addressing it and getting something done? Or am I just fucking nuts?

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Damn, that's right Steve, I completely forgot, you're going to conjure up a closure law or policy change by wishing it so in group man-hug up on LoLP and cursing all the agency personnel to eternal damnation while you're at it. Good luck with that (oh, and be sure and bring drums for the chanting circle).

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Group man-hug! Now thats funny. Instead of shaking hands next time I see ya Joe, I am going to give you a big hug! Sounds like you need one, ya teddy bear you.

In fact, whenever we run into each other out there at Beacon, we all should hug each other. Sure, you'd have chalk all over your back but the world would be a happier friendlier place. Joe, I think you're on to something. I think all the boys will probably hug you from now on, even though you protest, because we can all tell, you need love too!!!

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For someone who's so adamantly against "incessant whining", you sure do incessantly whine about it a lot :P

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No, I don't need love - I need less whining and more open days at Beacon.

 

 

thanks to closure i ended up getting in more climbing days than i ever did, until i open up a painting company. now all i do is work, i'm a okay with this, i have more total days in climbing than most. i don't see you hitting the road for 3 months at a time mister :)

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i don't think it's cool for u too bring kevbones wife or bryan into this, or am i jst fucking nuts???

Wait a minute - you guys, and Kevin and Jim in particular, have had biannual seizures over the closure like clockwork for the past fourteen years without doing jack about it. I come along, get tired of listening to all the incessant whining and finally make the mistake of looking into it all. And the instant you make that mistake - aside from suddenly being up to your neck in a whole new grand levels of bullshit - you are immediately into the law and the policy that flows from it.

 

Don't like the closure? Want to change or eliminate it? Cool, welcome to federal and Washington state law. And unless I'm way off the mark, it's always better to work with lawyers when you head into that territory if you want better odds of getting stuff done. Last I checked Maggie and Bryan are lawyers and good ones.

 

I find it amazing you guys actually have the audacity to say shit about any of my statements around what can or can't be done about the closure without a) bothering looking into it all yourselves in any realistic, detailed way, b) sitting down and talking with all the agency personnel responsible for implementing and enforcing the policy, and c) using any and all legal or agency resources you know who might actually be able to better understand the relevant laws and could help determine what options are open to climbers.

 

So it's not cool to talk to lawyers we know about the closure law? What are you saying, that it's really just all about the incessant whining and our identity as 'victims' of the closure that's what's important instead of addressing it and getting something done? Or am I just fucking nuts?

 

 

it's just that i don't remember the 2 lawyers you speak of being part of this conversation..

 

it's not about audacity, it's just too much fun to flip you shit.

 

i bet you can't keep from posting about beacon for more that a month, you love to be heard just like the rest of us. i doubt people blindly post on hear hoping not to log back in later to see them agreed with or disagreed with. if you disagree your a liar if you agree i'ts just not as fun :grin:

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The Interwebs as my witness. I'll solo YW naked if these guys can go a whole month without talking about Beacon rock on CC.com.

 

Anyway, the weather is the splitter this weekend. Who wants to get out and do some rock climbing?

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if it were onsight that might be something. solo blownout and i won't post for 6 months, solo BSS and i won't post for a year, solo jensens ridge and i won't ever again post about beacon again.

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if it were onsight that might be something. solo blownout and i won't post for 6 months, solo BSS and i won't post for a year, solo jensens ridge and i won't ever again post about beacon again.

CYA! :wave: As he just free-soloed Blownout and free solo/downclimbed Jill's Thrill the other day, can we assume you're out of here for 6 months Andrew?

 

Give you time to go climb something. I heard from your protege just yesterday or maybe it was this morning, King Blacktard, that he climbed a route in the Black Canyon while you were sleeping or wanking or what ever old person moves you were doing. :P

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