JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 ...lets punters like me get up routes that are way above my pay grade. Still weak though. In that case it would only take me retiring, losing another fifteen pounds, and about eight months of climbing to be a punter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 ...lets punters like me get up routes that are way above my pay grade. Still weak though. In that case it would only take me retiring, losing another fifteen pounds, and about eight months of climbing to be a punter. Â that's every climber on this board dork...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Â he'd probably beat the holy crap out of you cause you talk too much i learned by watching you...you! Â if'n the fa said bolts could be added ya can...but you get called a dipshit if they weren't much needed in the eyes of the community (pricks that they are) - when the fa croaks, the community assumes stewardship and shit gets murkier - so the lesson is, don't die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 You yourself have been a progenitor of such proceedings and goings-on, how can you deny the laws you live by? Replacing bad bolts has nothing whatsoever to do with ethics or 'laws', whereas retrobolting established routes does. And when you are talking about adding bolts to long established climbs then you are just asking for trouble regardless of what the FA thinks because at that point your 'community' is vested in the climb. No, that is incorrect. Established climbing protocol and procedural rules take precedence over any personal preference. Â Â I so agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Joe might have you on this one Kevin. Say in 100 years when we are all dead, should we never replace any bolts because the FA didn't want the bolts replaced? Of course not, but in this case the FA is still around and had an opinion on it.  Shame on people that add more bolts to established routes, weak. Agreed ! Although side note, I enjoy the retro-bolted climbs at Smith, lets punters like me get up routes that are way above my pay grade. Still weak though  I do as well. As long as they had permission.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 cause i don't believe in retro bolting cause ur kicking the guy who put the route up square in the NUT SAC. Â Unless you get permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Is pussify even a word? ... If it wasn't before, is now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Is pussify even a word? ... If it wasn't before, is now... it's a living language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 First off, the bolts on YW were/are in horrible shape and needed to be replaced. I let Jim know what I had in mind, to which he replied, in effect, every bolt on the route was in perfect shape and wouldn't need replacing and could never be replaced without screwing up the route because every bolt was in the 'perfect' spot. You may or may not forgive me, but I took those statements to be a bit laden with hyperbole, and so offered to do it with him so he could look at the condition of each bolt himself. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 And your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 You did it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Yes, the bolts were bad - is there part of that you missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Can some one explain why that bolt on the 2nd pitch of Young Warriors is so far to the left? You have to reach way over to clip it and it makes the rope run in almost a 90 degree arc unless you sling it and even them creates a ton of rope drag. Why isn't it placed above you where you can clip it above you and make the rope run allot smoother? Would Jim be into moving that bolt I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Why are you even clipping it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 It's in the perfect spot, what's the problem? Sling it long if you're going to clip it and it isn't an issue unless you're running p1 and p2 together which for the most part sucks from a rope drag regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 replacing bad bolts even against the fa'ers wish is not insane to me, but i still don't understand how the bolts in question were determined to be bad prior to yanking them - i do wish jim was in on it all too as the result is a lot of bad noise from everyone i hang out w/ out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I replaced 136 anchor bolts out there and by and large I know bad ones when I see them based on the ones I pulled or by the corrosion in the cross sections of the ones I snapped or sawed off. And the p1 and p2 YW anchor bolts were the worst of the lot that got replaced. As I said earlier Jim's knee blew out when we were lined up to do it, but it was happening last winter as schlepping all that stuff around at the start of the season is just too damn hard. Bummer, but I'm ok with bad noise over the bad bolts. Maybe in some folks' world bolts don't go bad and can't be replaced, but that world isn't out at Beacon or anywhere else in the Gorge or west side of the Cascades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 It's in the perfect spot, what's the problem? Â It does not even need to be there. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Am I supposed to argue that point? It wasn't my assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I clip that bolt with a sling because if you ever do blow a flake up in the butthole it might be the only thing that saves you from going the distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 There is pro if you want it up above the bolt at the apex of the triangle. As for the butthole, the 'three point' rule and a gentle touch are the word. I basically don't touch any of those flakes for more than and instant and then just barely. I get up to a standing, no-hand stance up in the butthole in essentially one dynamic move. It goes from the ledge starting off using a low outer right side flake momentarily to lauch the move and a high inner left side flake for just another instant to land it and stabilize. Doing a lot of groping around in the butthole to get up it, particularly using any of the lower left side doesn't seem (to me anyway) like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Sometimes I put my head in the buthole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 The hard part is pulling it out, though. POP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Yep, pretty hard to be up there no-hands unless you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I clip that bolt with a sling because if you ever do blow a flake up in the butthole it might be the only thing that saves you from going the distance. Â Once you pull the mantle past the second bolt. There is good gear down and left. A yellow alien and a stopper work great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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