counterfeitfake Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 You developers poured so much time, effort, and money into the route, and I am all for you getting the credit and small amount of glory available by having your name next to "FFA" in a guidebook. But why did you release a topo to the public before you were ready for the route to be climbed? You are cool with people climbing the route as long as they pull on a bolt at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 I was thinking this but wasn't going to say it but since it was said anyway I'll go ahead and say it. Why spray before the project is completed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 My beach, my wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchuck71 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Why spray before the project is completed? Exactly. and say someone did go free it first, aside from calling the person an asshole and such what are you really going to do? No disrespect but the whole so and so can try or any other locals but not you Leclerc because you don't have a star on your belly (Dr Suess - being a new dad has skewed my references) is kind of funny in a ridiculous way. But hey whatever - I am not good enough to do it and I really don't care all that much about who gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallstein Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I've put up a handfull of routes and completely understand the amount of work that goes into them. I've had routes take over 20 days of work and cost well over $500 bucks to put up. Pretty invested in the send and I sure wanted to get the FFA. Don't think I would be that stoked if someone snaked my project before I got a chance to do the FFA. That being said I've never posted a topo on a community forum and asked people to go climb the route before I actually sent. I think by posting a report and a topo you are pretty much giving the route a green light. If you don't want people to climb the route you don't spray about it. If you want people to climb the route you spray about it. Pretty simple in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 and there you have it. no continuous free ascent yet. and its closed for a Continuous ascent for the moment except to people who have been contacted within the community (many of whom are amazing climbers and will be far better than I will ever be). Actually, you're kind of making it sound like the FFA isn't going to be done by one of the developers, but you want to make sure you give it away to the right person. Is that what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summitchaserCJB Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I've put up a handfull of routes and completely understand the amount of work that goes into them. I've had routes take over 20 days of work and cost well over $500 bucks to put up. Pretty invested in the send and I sure wanted to get the FFA. Don't think I would be that stoked if someone snaked my project before I got a chance to do the FFA. That being said I've never posted a topo on a community forum and asked people to go climb the route before I actually sent. I think by posting a report and a topo you are pretty much giving the route a green light. If you don't want people to climb the route you don't spray about it. If you want people to climb the route you spray about it. Pretty simple in my opinion. You do have a point man. Although snaking would be kinda lame IMO, you might have asked for it (well...you did). You just didn't maybe expect people to try to free it maybe? Anyway, hope it works out guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRiha Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 if anybody climbs this, Driller and I would love some feedback-- more/fewer bolts, grades, etc. Now go climb it, folks! Ya this is Mike's proj right now so respect it. If you did free it, however, the tactful thing to do would be to not say anything about it. 50 man-days of work went into this route and the people who did the work should get first shot at freeing it. Really??? So, you dangle out that topo, encourage people to climb it....but for someone who not only has a good chance of freeing the entire thing, but possibly getting the onsite, then it's not cool? I've heard of red-tagging something, but never heard of red-tagging a specific section of a pitch, or a specific move on a pitch. Is that common in Squamish??? Good work on the climb...looks spectacular, but you might want to work on the public presentation next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MStyles Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 i'm glad you guys raised that point actually about the release of the topo etc. the blog is controlled by chris, along with the content 100%, he's posted photos of sections of the route, a photo of the wall itself, everything, during the development process, and now he's released a topo of the route itself, when i told him not to. now as a route developer do you want people to know about something that hasn't been completed. a logical person would say no.but we all know by now that chris isn't exactly the cautious type or a strategist. besides there's a static line hanging from one of them for a reason so that should be a pretty clear indication to take the A0 variation instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 No disrespect but the whole so and so can try or any other locals but not you Leclerc because you don't have a star on your belly... Nobody here is picking on Marc. We were just bugging him! I am sure he is a great person and super stoked for others to try his projects As for releasing the topo, etc... Who gives a SHIT about that. We are all lucky that there is even a new moderate route to climb which actually tops out on the Chief. If the FA party want you to stay off the unclimbed stuff then STAY OFF IT. Simple as that. For those of you who haven't read this article by Chris Sharma, give it a go... http://englishdailaojeda.blogspot.com/2010/03/first-respect-first-minute.html He goes on about showing respect towards those people who first cleaned/equipped a climb and are about to FFA it. It's a pretty good read if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchuck71 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Marc was just an easy example. I am totally keen on the respect of others routes. Just commenting as the whole outing thing and then rule making was seemingly awkward but the last few posts by the parties actually involved cleared things up a little. Let me be clear, definite kudos to the developers in regard to vision, time and money invested as well as climbing way harder than I ever will being myself a master of mediocrity. Good on you all and cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 the blog is controlled by chris, along with the content 100%, he's posted photos of sections of the route, a photo of the wall itself, everything, during the development process, and now he's released a topo of the route itself, when i told him not to. Ah, that explains much... hope you guys get it sorted out. You probably don't really need to worry about anyone poaching. Thanks again for the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_stolz Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) the blog is controlled by chris, along with the content 100%, he's posted photos of sections of the route, a photo of the wall itself, everything, during the development process, and now he's released a topo of the route itself, when i told him not to. Ah, that explains much... hope you guys get it sorted out. You probably don't really need to worry about anyone poaching. Thanks again for the work. We released the topo because the route needs traffic (it's mossy Squamish, after all), and we need feedback. Besides, Mike just got a job in Montreal, so he won't be around that much, which means that if the route sits waiting for his FFA or FCFA beyond this August, it will start to re-vegetate. And I for one am pretty damn sick of cleaning it, having spent 26 days doing just that. I think Pazzo has it right-- go ahead and climb it, just leave the unfreed parts till Mike gets his shot at those. This route cost about $1100, took 50+ days of work, and cost two of the developers most of one climbing season, so it would only be polite for others to leave the remaining 1.5 pitches for Mike. ANYWAY: the route is 90% open and 100% safely climbable...DO IT! Edited July 22, 2010 by chris_stolz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MStyles Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 so i spoke to a few prominent route developers. Typically a pitch or a project gets 1 year to get free'd when it has red tape / indicated by a person that it is closed. Any longer than that and it gets opened up. any input to that would be welcomed. how long does a project get to stay closed (ie. when the red tape is on or a rope is on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Whatever.... let us know when you send.. or it becomes open.. then I will give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giza Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Styles - Even though you just started a new JOB (Just Obey Boss) tell your new employer that you need time off right now to go free a route in BC. They won't understand, you'll get fired, and then you can free it before someone else does. By the way, there is so much hot tail in Montreal it's almost worth moving out there. What were you thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Whatever.... let us know when you send.. or it becomes open.. then I will give it a go. Dude your focus right now should be on feeing Cobra Crack. How can you find time to waste on this climb when you should be on that? You have some stiff competition right now back there on Cobra (TC and AH) gunning for the 7th and 8th ascent(?). Get to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MStyles Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 thanks for respecting it marc. steve i haven't noticed the women, i only got one of my mind and she crushes. by the way, this was the very same project that i spoke to you about 2 years ago. its done now. restating the obvious. FA in order of involvement. Chris, Dylan, Mike. (yeah i'll keep hammering the point home). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Whatever.... let us know when you send.. or it becomes open.. then I will give it a go. Dude your focus right now should be on feeing Cobra Crack. How can you find time to waste on this climb when you should be on that? You have some stiff competition right now back there on Cobra (TC and AH) gunning for the 7th and 8th ascent(?). Get to it Mason and Pewee aren't far off either!!! I'm hoping to send '69' in Murrin though, I have fallen with my fingers on the finishing jug twice now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I'm hoping to send '69' in Murrin though, I have fallen with my fingers on the finishing jug twice now! On lead, placing all gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giza Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 steve.....this was the very same project that i spoke to you about 2 years ago. its done now. Styles, I remember you mentioning that you wanted to develop something in the area. Amazing work on seeing it through to completion - hats off to you and your partners! When/if my balls drop from their current state of reclusion I may just venture on to the route. Best, Giza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmace Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Mason and Pewee aren't far off either!!! No I am climbing in italy till September so I'm out... arrividerchi suckas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I'm hoping to send '69' in Murrin though, I have fallen with my fingers on the finishing jug twice now! On lead, placing all gear? Yes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzo Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I'm hoping to send '69' in Murrin though, I have fallen with my fingers on the finishing jug twice now! On lead, placing all gear? Yes.... I should hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 goodness gracious... looks what I found! http://squamishclimbing.com/squamish_climbing_bb/viewtopic.php?t=2842&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 With all the time spent on this daddy ^ you could have freed this route long ago! No worried though, I just found my own FFA project to work on, and it is good as gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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