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summitchaserCJB

Be careful out there

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I'd just like to say that Index Fire/Rescue and Goldbar Fire/Rescue did an excellent job treating and getting the climber down safely.

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The belayer was belaying from the anchors at the top of the 1st pitch. The belayer was anchored in how? I assume with a daisy and rope into the anchors, and not that much slack. If putting allot of slack into the system, thats a mistake right there.

 

Where did you get the idea the belayer should be attached with minimal slack? Sounds like some bs the mountaineers would teach.

 

I would argue that the belayer needs slack to dodge falling rock or gear and to maintain circulation on long semi hanging belays and that a soft catch, as provided by the belayer jumping/being jerked up, is the far better and safer catch (ie the one i like to be caught with when i fall...and i fall a fair amount).

 

 

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Lukic has the cam...However he might have already left to Yosemite for 3 weeks. He will get the cam to the rightful owner. No worries.

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not sure it would have made a difference and its just armchairing anyway. But I think a grigi is a good investment for the inexperienced lead belayer...I know it makes me feel better.

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Steve, I completely agree with you here. Sorry Rob that you don't want us talking about this and sorry if it hurts anyone's feelings but it sounds to me like someone fucked up.

 

Original story was that TWO properly placed cams failed leading to a grounder. Looks to me like this is more a case of a belayer dropping the leader. I'm not trying to flame these two but if that's the story then this "two pieces popped but the one at my knees held and I only took a 30 ft whipper"!?!? story is just something to cover up a bruised ego. No one wants to admit to something like this and I'd really like to hear the story from the horse's mouth but don't get all pissy that we're asking questions about this story because it just doesn't add up.

 

Sounds like she fucking dropped him. Nuff said. If they have something to add I would love to hear it.

 

If you don't want it scrutinized then I might suggest not posting it on CC.

 

 

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...and doesn't deserve a grand jury Spanish inquisition about this...

Fixt it fer ya, Mark.

 

monty-python-spanish-inquisition.jpg

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They don't make the Index tough guys like they used to! ;)

I guess thru the years having seen alot of people died or been seriously injured at Index. Broken ankles, broken ribs, as least you go on living. Index is a harsh mistress, and accidents should be assessed and learned from in my opinion. I feel these folks are the lucky ones, and I wasn't trying to condemn then. Just hope they make a honest assessment of what went wrong so that everyone can learn from it.

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I agree with Joseph that is sounds like they were relatively inexperienced climbers on a multipitch trad lead at Index.

I guess I have been sounding like a a-hole and thats not my intention, but I try to be hyper aware of belays and consequences. I don't know Malcolm why you say this is a high factor fall? Sounds to me like not. Short falls on short amounts of rope cause harsh fall factor, and sounds like they had some rope out. Also curious what you mean "If she was completely unprepared for it, then she is your hero"? She was off the ground belaying a lead climber on a trad lead, better have your shit togather if you are going to do this. and if you are not going to use a autolocking belay device, then you better never take your hand off the rope, and be prepared to act.

 

How much energy the impact of the slab, the pulled gear etc took up, I don't know. I DO know that the piece that caught the climber was less than 10 feet above the belay. The climber ended up at least 20 feet below the belayer. Let's say 30 feet of rope was out. That puts the theoretical fall factor OVER 1. Obviously the impact lessened that SOME, but any fall where the climber falls below the belayer is going to hit hard.

 

If the belayer didn't know how bad a high factor fall could be, yet took rope burn on both hands and stopped him, then she should be commended. If you don't know what you don't know, then how would you know that you are unprepared to handle a situation like that? Good thing this ended up like it did and all involved (and not) can learn from it.

i think blowing the gear and hitting the slab reduce the fall factor well below 1...

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The belayer was belaying from the anchors at the top of the 1st pitch. The belayer was anchored in how? I assume with a daisy and rope into the anchors, and not that much slack. If putting allot of slack into the system, thats a mistake right there.

 

Where did you get the idea the belayer should be attached with minimal slack? Sounds like some bs the mountaineers would teach.

 

I would argue that the belayer needs slack to dodge falling rock or gear and to maintain circulation on long semi hanging belays and that a soft catch, as provided by the belayer jumping/being jerked up, is the far better and safer catch (ie the one i like to be caught with when i fall...and i fall a fair amount).

 

:tup:

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Did you ever get in touch with him? He is a friend of a friend, I can hook you guys up if you still have his gear.

Ty

253215573

 

I dont get on too often so call instead of write please.

 

thx.

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I contacted Lukic with the cam owners info, and he called him a couple days ago, so as far as I know the gear has been returned. Thanks to Lukic and all involved. Best wishes to the climber and belayer.

 

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I'd be interested to hear the details of that study. If it was done in good rock, we might want to take up a different sport.

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