johndavidjr Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 If you want to give CEOs a pass on their actual responsibities, maybe that's just a "philosophical" question that can apply to CEOS and chairmen at quite small companies like Armor, as well as to the real gigantic ones you might hear about on the Tacoma TV news..... sometimes. Particularly in handling a simple quote, the Reuter's story should be pretty reliable. The Armor spokesperson told Reuters that Armor's DoJ fine related to products made by Armor during the period 2000-2005. The problem was making "zylon" bullet-proof vests while knowing the stuff was no good.... Armor was neither the only manufacturer of these products, nor the only company fined on this. There were at least several, including the giant Honeywell. Does that make sense to you? As Kanders said recently on the Black Diamond conference call, he sees "opportunities in the industry for consolidation" --- This is also how he made his killing with Armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 "...at quite small companies like Armor..." In the SEC S-4 for 2004 Armor Holdings controlled 40 some corps with at least 10 of them that I recognise that were building personal body armor. The company (AH) sold three years later for $4.1 BILLION. Talking BILLIONS here not millions. Small? Exxon-Mobile's market capitalization is 278 Billion, the largest in the US currently, Microsoft 219 Billion. Not that big, but 4 BILLION is "big" enough. from the 2004 SEC S-4 911EP, Inc. AHI Bulletproof Acquisition Corp. AHI Properties I, Inc. AI Capital Corp. Armor Brands, Inc. Armor Group Services, LLC Armor Holdings Forensics, Inc. Armor Holdings GP, LLC Armor Holdings LP, LLC Armor Holdings Mobile Security, L.L.C. Armor Holdings Payroll Services, LLC Armor Holdings Products, Inc. Armor Holdings Properties, Inc. Armor Safety Products Company ASD Capital Corp. B-Suare, Inc. Break-Free Armor Corp. Break-Free, Inc. Casco International, Inc. CCEC Capital Corp. CDR International, Inc. Defense Technology Corporation of America Hatch Imports, Inc. Identicator, Inc. International Center for Safety Education, Inc. Monadnock Lifetime Products, Inc. New Monadnock Lifetime Products, Inc. Monadnock Police Training Council, Inc. NAP Properties, Ltd. NAP Property Managers, LLC Network Audit Systems, Inc. New Technologies Armor, Inc. O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt Armoring Pro-Tech Armored Products of Ramtech Development Corp. Safari Land Ltd., Inc. Safariland Government Sales, Inc. SAI Capital Corp. Simula Aerospace & Defense Group, Inc. Simula, Inc. Simula Polymers Systems, Inc. Simula Technologies, Inc. Simula Transportation Equipment Corporation Speedfeed Acquisition Corp. The O'Gara Company "The Armor spokesperson told Reuters that Armor's DoJ fine related to products made by Armor during the period 2000-2005." No way to win when you are fighting all the FEDS. That happens when you really piss off those that should have known better themselves like the FBI, DOJ, the Secret Service for GOD's sake, the NIJ and virtually every Federal and State law enforcement agency and their Attorney Generals. "The problem was making "zylon" bullet-proof vests while knowing the stuff was no good.... " Says who? You? I didn't see any evidence of that past all the suits filed against anyone building from Zylon. You want to paint everyone with the broad stroke of Richard Davis' conduct. Which is obviously an unfair representation. "Armor was neither the only manufacturer of these products, nor the only company fined on this. There were at least several, including the giant Honeywell. Does that make sense to you?" Sure, but not really the story or on point. Civil fines were paid because it was easier than fighting it out in court..for both sides. Better to call it a "leveraged" factory recall with everyone then wanting their money back...in this case those wanting their money were also the "law of the land". It was a big stick. "As Kanders said recently on the Black Diamond conference call, he sees "opportunities in the industry for consolidation" --- This is also how he made his killing with Armor." The thread started off as a bash to Kanders and BD suggesting the "new" gear will be sub par in comparison. I have a fair idea of what the consolidation did to the firearms training and accessory industry and don't have an issue with it. Do I want that same business format applied to climbing? Not really. But I don't begrudge Kanders the opportunity either. Reading comprehension and geography?...try looking up Issaquah and Tacoma. It might help your fantasy speculation and story telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 (edited) Ding Ding....and the winner is.....Dane! this horse is so dead. can we end this boxing match? (I suppose I don't have to look but it is like a car wreck) Edited May 28, 2010 by genepires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 The aroma of Tacoma...the Issaquah Alps. Dane actually buys the old corporate mumbo-jumbo. He's right. The U.S. Department of Justice was just bein' mean & prejudice & standin' in the way of progressy type of things when it said all that stuff to the lamestream media..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I'm a financial reporter, a pretty narrow field, but once in a while my stuff gets shoved in newspapers. But just as obviously not a very good or astute financial reporter. Makes your repeated mistakes on the details/dates and the continued wild personal speculation even more pathetic. Obviously some sort of personal agenda on your part from the beginning. Any professional within a few minutes of research would recognise and acknowledge the situation with the Zylon law suits and stop pointing fingers. Nice Sarah Palin impersonation. If you have nothing of value to say, by all means just make shit up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 financial reporters are never wrong. (hint of sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Okay I admit everything. My "wife" is cheating with Kanders and I want revenge. He's an eagle scout and 5.13d climber (in mountain boots) and best "friends" with Chouinard and Fred Becky. My cousin is now in prison, but he was at the Justice Department and got fired for saying mean and untrue things about Armor. You all should know, the DoJ later apologized for the whole thing. Kanders never signed off on that $30M fine, so it was never really paid.... because he knew it was just like, stupidness!! I am in the infantry in Afghanistan and I'm just lovin' my really cool Armor Zylon vest. Dnt ask, dnt tell, but am gonna sew a Patagonia label on...and sell it to this really weird junior Microsoft executive I've been "seeing" for the past couple of nights in the Hindu Kush .................he's like climbing something........whatever.....sometimes he posts here, but not often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkporwit Posted May 29, 2010 Share Posted May 29, 2010 Congrats johndavidjr, that last post is the first time you've made sense on this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted May 29, 2010 Share Posted May 29, 2010 There is a difference between New Jersey and Connecticut. Answer to Lostcam's insightful question...is therefore yes. john, maybe i missed something but i don't believe i ever asked a question, much less an insightful one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcJizzy Posted May 29, 2010 Share Posted May 29, 2010 Wow, what a lot of dumb pricks here Dumb-ass fools! Dummkopfh!!! I'm a financial reporter, a pretty narrow field, but once in a while my stuff gets shoved in newspapers. But just as obviously not a very good or astute financial reporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Kanders gave me AIDS...When Palin came to Iraq that time, she paid me to have unprotected sex............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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