Shiny new bolt on Castle Rock

[RJRiha]

Yes, I think the Midway Direct Direct bolts have been there for years but it does seem that maybe the original post in this threaad is about a new bolt.

 

Separate question about MDD: was there once a bolt somewhere in that face climbing following the two closely spaced bolts? I used to lead that pitch regularly but it was many years ago and now I look up there and it doesn't look like what I want to do any more. I don't remember thinking it was scary.

 

Where are the MDD bolts? This bolt was not very far off of Jello Tower. Maybe it's something that I have never noticed before because I've never been up there with bright sunshine making it apparent. Maybe I have never noticed it because I tend to avoid Castle on nice, sunny days due to the crowds.

 

From the ground, looking at Midway pitch one, the bolt appeared to be at the step across. From the top of Jello Tower, it's up about a body length and out to the left.

 

Hopefully I didn't just get a whole bunch of people up in arms about something that has always been there....

[el jefe]

What are the Angel anchors and when did they come into existence? Summit chaser when you fix this new bolt, might the Angel anchor need "chopping" as well?

 

Thanks!

 

this sounds pretty much like an endorsement of chopping to me. "fair and balanced" on the part of the mod? not so much.

[Sol]

What are the Angel anchors and when did they come into existence? Summit chaser when you fix this new bolt, might the Angel anchor need "chopping" as well?

 

Thanks!

 

this sounds pretty much like an endorsement of chopping to me. "fair and balanced" on the part of the mod? not so much.

 

I agree.

[Peter_Puget]

So as a "Mod" I can't endorse any action because I wont be acting under the Mod guideline of "Fair & Balanced?" That doesn't seem to make any sense I haven't used my admittedly awesome “mod” powers at all in this thread. Now assuming that there is an obligation for mods to make threads fair and balanced what do you think can/should be done to make then F&B.

 

 

By the way you first said I was “prodding” (To goad to action; incite.) SummitChaser and now you’ve changed it to “endorse” (To give approval of or support to) Of course these words have different meanings.

 

I'm still waiting for the "locals" to get off their asses and pry that block out!

 

 

 

[el jefe]

peter, earlier in the thread you said this

 

"Summit chaser when you fix this new bolt, might the Angel anchor need "chopping" as well?"

 

then when i confronted you, you said this

 

"I am not sure I am encouraging anybody to do anything"

 

since you want to take refuge in semantics ("prod" vs "endorse"), then let me point out that these two statements of yours taken together are a pretty textbook example of a man speaking out of both sides of his mouth. and as regards what i want from a moderator, i'd simply like someone who sees it as his/her job to keep the peace rather than foment discord.

[Rad]

I find myself even more conservative than SCJB. Part of the fun of climbing is experiencing the "traditional" fixed gear. It gives me a sense of history that simply isn't there with modern stainless gear. I use to carry several quickdraws with narrow gates so that I could clip those pull tab aluminum hangers that use to be quite common. I can't remember the last Leeper hanger I clipped. Sadly this whole upgrade process is dumbing down our sport. Let's agree to leave the "classics" classic!

yep...that old aluminum hanger is just like the one used by the FA!! , likewise them bomber 1/4"-ers!!!!! Same as the day they were put in, i tell ya!

 

keepin' it real...

 

This sums it up for me too. I've clipped bolts in Yosemite and Pinnacles and many other places that might have been safe and solid when they went in but are garbage now. Reputable areas and organizations, including Yosemite and the Access Fund, support upgrading crappy hardware to make it safe. The focus is usually on anchors, but the same logic applies to bolts. Perhaps not to pins. That said, I too enjoy seeing and clipping old gear. It's part of the magic of experiencing older lines, so I would hope hardware is only replaced when absolutely necessary (i.e. failure is imminent). Finally, this is an issue for the Castle climbing community to decide, not the interweb SWAT team.

[Peter_Puget]

Well true enough I did use the word encourage. I thought it less incendiary than "prodding" but still to be in the spirit of your intended meaning - trying in some sense to be fair and balanced.

 

Still I am not sure how my participation in this thread is prohibited by being a mod. Castle rock has been the center of much controversy on CC.com. I have not called anyone names, impugned anyone’s motives, questioned a person's experience level or manhood in this thread.

[Peter_Puget]

Finally, this is an issue for the Castle climbing community to decide, not the interweb SWAT team.

 

Just what is the Castle community? How is membership defined? What do I need to do to be in the governing circle? Are you saying things like this should not be posted on CC.com?

[billcoe]

I though I'd wandered into the Columbia river gorge thread. Wheres Lancegranite now?

 

Good luck with it dudes.

[G-spotter]

Wheres Lancegranite now?

 

 

he's out chopping the new bolt!

[Off_White]

WHERE IS AN ADMINISTRATOR WHEN YOU NEED ONE! THIS MODERATOR FAILURE SHALL NOT STAND. I NEED AN MLU.

[ConorB]

bolters (bloods) wear red. choppers (crips) wear blue. meet at snow creek parking lot and finish this shit. meanwhile ill be out climbing. it will be nice when its less populated.

 

thanks

[Peter_Puget]

I need to run to the Safe but I offer this solution to the entire bolt controversy...

 

I suggest we never rebolt our "traditional classics." Instead we should leave them as a museum piece celebrating the day in which they were first climbed. Climbers can bolt up as many new routes as they want. As the trad classics age, they will become the new frontier for each new generation of climbers. The difficulty of the old climbs will rise with the abilities of the new generations. For example…Black Widow was bolted to the max. (see sample picture) These days climbers do not need to use the bolts. This is partly due to the fact that there are cams but in the wide section it is primarily because climbers have simply gotten better. The bolted climbs of today are just like Black Widow was in the 60s. My plan allows us to have our cake and eat it too! We can bolt all we like and create the test pieces of tomorrow!

 

 

[Rad]

I need to run to the Safe but I offer this solution to the entire bolt controversy...

 

I suggest we never rebolt our "traditional classics." Instead we should leave them as a museum piece celebrating the day in which they were first climbed. Climbers can bolt up as many new routes as they want. As the trad classics age, they will become the new frontier for each new generation of climbers. The difficulty of the old climbs will rise with the abilities of the new generations. For example…Black Widow was bolted to the max. (see sample picture) These days climbers do not need to use the bolts. This is partly due to the fact that there are cams but in the wide section it is primarily because climbers have simply gotten better. The bolted climbs of today are just like Black Widow was in the 60s. My plan allows us to have our cake and eat it too! We can bolt all we like and create the test pieces of tomorrow!

 

Great. When I put up a new route I'll make sure to use 1/4 steel that rusts away within a couple of years. That way people can get really scared on stuff that was safe on the FA.

[S1W]

 

You would really rather have classic lines, lines originally put up with fixed hardware, fade into obscurity?

Edited April 12, 2010 by S1W

[Sol]

screw this bull, i'm going climbing.

[summitchaserCJB]

bolters (bloods) wear red. choppers (crips) wear blue. meet at snow creek parking lot and finish this shit. meanwhile ill be out climbing. it will be nice when its less populated.

 

thanks

Yes- This matches my "action suit."

[Spore]

Most Locals are smart and stay way from Castle. With 200 plus pitches last year and only one there (Clean Love) Im one of them.

Leave Trad (old & new) routes alone.

Replacing bolts on some older sport line is a good thing if needed.

Leave it like the FFA did, if you cant climb to those stands STFU and Go back to Portland (or where ever)

If you are dumb and add a bolt to any line (trad or Sport)

maybe you need one in the middle of your forehead.

 

There are so many climbs there, and it seems 90% of the climbers climb 4-5 of the routes thats it ! and its Sad, there are a few good lines there needing cleaned and "re-discovered" so a person can do them.

 

[markwebster]

Those new bolts off to the left of the midway step across have been there at least 5 years. They do not protect the step across. They are too far away. They are part of that other route that comes up the face left of damnation. If someone has added something new since I was up there last fall to protect the midway step across, that is lame.

 

But on the topic of Leavenworth bolts, I climbed West Face of Grand Central tower (5.8) yesterday in the Pinnacles. The two bolts on the far right hand side, (10c?) do not look good after the massive rock avalanche from Nirvana Ridge. Both bolts show evidence of heavy scraping. I wager they are suspect.

 

One of the key knobs got scraped out, and several footholds are shattered.

 

West Face, and the two lines immediately right look normal on rappel, but I did not take any falls on the bolts. That was one hell of a rock slide.

 

It kind of irritates me that the routes in the pinnacles continue to get harder due to trees falling (slender thread, washboards, etc) and no protection is added to replace the missing safety points. With that tree on Slender thread, and the tree on washboards, they were a lot safer.

 

I can just imagine the hue and cry if bolts were added. I think our generation (of bolt police) will have to die out before common sense comes back into play.

[telemarker]

In a million years (or sooner if we're lucky) all of the Pinnacles will have toppled to the ground, and will be but a long forgotten nightmare.

[Raindawg]

I need to run to the Safe but I offer this solution to the entire bolt controversy...

 

I suggest we never rebolt our "traditional classics." Instead we should leave them as a museum piece celebrating the day in which they were first climbed. Climbers can bolt up as many new routes as they want. As the trad classics age, they will become the new frontier for each new generation of climbers. The difficulty of the old climbs will rise with the abilities of the new generations. For example…Black Widow was bolted to the max. (see sample picture) These days climbers do not need to use the bolts. This is partly due to the fact that there are cams but in the wide section it is primarily because climbers have simply gotten better. The bolted climbs of today are just like Black Widow was in the 60s. My plan allows us to have our cake and eat it too! We can bolt all we like and create the test pieces of tomorrow!

 

I can only assume that you're joking, right? because that's some of the stupidest stuff I've read in a long time.

[el jefe]

for once i find myself in agreement with raindawg.

[Raindawg]

Those new bolts off to the left of the midway step across have been there at least 5 years. They do not protect the step across. They are too far away. They are part of that other route that comes up the face left of damnation. If someone has added something new since I was up there last fall to protect the midway step across, that is lame.

 

Those bolts might be residual anchors from the retrobolting of Dan's Dreadful Direct...rightfully chopped a few years ago. I think the choppers might have left them as a top-rope anchor for those not bold enough to lead it as was done in decades past (including clean ascents in the 1980's by the likes of Dan Lapeska). If they do protect Midway....they gotta go...that scary step-across has been a rite-of-passge for generations.

 

It kind of irritates me that the routes in the pinnacles continue to get harder due to trees falling (slender thread, washboards, etc) and no protection is added to replace the missing safety points. With that tree on Slender thread, and the tree on washboards, they were a lot safer.

 

If it's all about safety, better to stay home or in the gym. Or top-rope those suckers, which is easily doable. Those routes have evolved courtesy of nature - those "safety-points" were trees at the base of the routes - and me and numerous others have adapted to the longer run-outs and continue to cimb them. Add a bolt and I'll be in line, with alot of others, to make it disappear.

 

I can just imagine the hue and cry if bolts were added. I think our generation (of bolt police) will have to die out before common sense comes back into play.

 

By the time that happens, the ethical pendulum will have swung in our direction, toward a future where permanent additions to the rock environment will be shunned and rare. Get yur dang top-rope out and quit yur whinin'. (and us "bolt-police" are going to be around at least as long as you will!)

[kayfire]

I need to run to the Safe but I offer this solution to the entire bolt controversy...

 

I suggest we never rebolt our "traditional classics." Instead we should leave them as a museum piece celebrating the day in which they were first climbed. Climbers can bolt up as many new routes as they want. As the trad classics age, they will become the new frontier for each new generation of climbers. The difficulty of the old climbs will rise with the abilities of the new generations. For example…Black Widow was bolted to the max. (see sample picture) These days climbers do not need to use the bolts. This is partly due to the fact that there are cams but in the wide section it is primarily because climbers have simply gotten better. The bolted climbs of today are just like Black Widow was in the 60s. My plan allows us to have our cake and eat it too! We can bolt all we like and create the test pieces of tomorrow!

 

 

 

This cracks me up--not only ridiculous and flawed, but ironic considering that this is coming from the guy who bolted Dana's Arch. This site is so LAME!

[el jefe]

Those new bolts off to the left of the midway step across have been there at least 5 years. They do not protect the step across. They are too far away. They are part of that other route that comes up the face left of damnation. If someone has added something new since I was up there last fall to protect the midway step across, that is lame.

 

Those bolts might be residual anchors from the retrobolting of Dan's Dreadful Direct...rightfully chopped a few years ago. I think the choppers might have left them as a top-rope anchor for those not bold enough to lead it as was done in decades past (including clean ascents in the 1980's by the likes of Dan Lapeska). If they do protect Midway....they gotta go...that scary step-across has been a rite-of-passge for generations.

 

It kind of irritates me that the routes in the pinnacles continue to get harder due to trees falling (slender thread, washboards, etc) and no protection is added to replace the missing safety points. With that tree on Slender thread, and the tree on washboards, they were a lot safer.

 

If it's all about safety, better to stay home or in the gym. Or top-rope those suckers, which is easily doable. Those routes have evolved courtesy of nature - those "safety-points" were trees at the base of the routes - and me and numerous others have adapted to the longer run-outs and continue to cimb them. Add a bolt and I'll be in line, with alot of others, to make it disappear.

 

I can just imagine the hue and cry if bolts were added. I think our generation (of bolt police) will have to die out before common sense comes back into play.

 

By the time that happens, the ethical pendulum will have swung in our direction, toward a future where permanent additions to the rock environment will be shunned and rare. Get yur dang top-rope out and quit yur whinin'. (and us "bolt-police" are going to be around at least as long as you will!)

 

okay, the balance of the universe has been re-established because now i disagree with raindawg again. thank goodness. i was feeling really confused there for a couple of minutes.