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Dane

Would you buy this racking biner?

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P5070267.JPG

 

Or something very similar @ $15 each? I am working on a slightly different version with a harness clip milled into the biner as well. Made of aluminum, obviously for racking gear ONLY and NOT climbing protection. No where near full climbing carabiner strength. But also not a piece of gear that is easily tweaked, broken or likely to dump gear like the plastic racking "biners" available currently fro BD and Petzl.

 

P5070262.JPG

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A related thought to throw out there in case any newbs are in the audience, regarding carrying/using nonpro pieces on a climb...

 

I used to have a couple cheap, non-protection biners(plastic) on my gear sling as racking biners. One day I was swapping leads with a guy who inadvertently used one of them for slinging pro on his lead. :shock: Incredulous that he could mistake it for REAL pro(I thought it was obvious that they looked like keychains), I asked him why he used it. With equal incredulousness, he asked me why the hell I would have something on my rack that is NOT rated as pro.

 

It never occured to me that someone would use one of them as pro, but it also never occured to him that something on the rack that looks like pro is anything other than pro.

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the biner looks good. well worth the $15.

 

having key chain biners on a rock rack sounds like a bad idea, especially if you are swapping leads. There are plenty of lightweight full strength biners out there that using toy biners is unnecessary .

Edited by genepires

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I've never (yet) had an issue with the ones that BD makes, but the aluminum does seem to address what some folks on here were complaining about on an earlier thread...it looks like it would accomodate more screws as well.

 

One thing that I do like on the BD version is the "hook" up by where the wiregate is hinged to the biner (I think it's even more pronounced on the newer gray version). It allows me to thumb through different (sizes of) screws without worrying about accidentally unclipping one -or I can have one sitting on the hook as I climb.

 

Silly details I know, as it doesn't seem so long ago when I would just rack my Russian titaniums off of an oval...

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Dane, why not make it full strength, the cost is in fab not the metal?

 

SS, while I'd like to, there is a lot more involved to go full strength. Either a lot more weight (steel) or more technology (hot forged aluminum 'biner), both would up the costs and initial investment considerably.

 

My thought was the climbing community was accustomed to a dedicated harness "racking clipper" (BD or Petzl) without the worry of it being required to be a full weight "climbing carabiner".

 

Grivel and BD umbilicals are the other items in regular use that are not "full weight".

 

I'm using plastic so what do I know :) You guys tell me?

 

BD's current version.

 

490101_ice_clipper.jpg

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One thing that I do like on the BD version is the "hook" up by where the wiregate is hinged to the biner (I think it's even more pronounced on the newer gray version). It allows me to thumb through different (sizes of) screws without worrying about accidentally unclipping one -or I can have one sitting on the hook as I climb.

 

The petzl version has a similar thingy (probably what BD copied it from :) )

 

717903_9996Lrg.jpg

 

After having a plastic ice clipper break several years ago, I'm presently using wiregates (old BD hotwires) in my ice clipper slots. Unless they had the hook thingy I see no reason to switch.

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I agree with the top hook/horn thing being a nice feature.

 

Can I clip my Quarks in and out with 1 hand too?

 

$15 seems like a good price to me. I would buy 3.

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The plastic ones have a hooded gate. The gate on the metal proto looks like it would open more easily. Way too easily. If a screw hanger gets suspended on that metal lip, it's gone.

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The gate on the metal proto looks like it would open more easily.

 

Might look that way but it doesn't open easily. Certainly no easier than the plastic biners and less likely to drop gear from these as the alumnimum frame is less likely to be twisted and jam the gate open in use. The same position (gate stuck open) I have seen most of the gear dropped from plastic racking biners. But to up the strength with the clipper closed I am working on a gate notch design.

 

For racking tools like the Quark and Nomic? My idea is to have a big enough clipper that will hold two of the fat Nomic heads with ease. You can easily rack one Petzl tool on these now or two BD tools. Racking tools one handed isn't a problem. I was thinking something more like the "big bro" version of Petzl's Caritool?

 

Thanks for the heads up on the upper shelf. Not something I use so hadn't thought about that. Easy to incorporate though.

 

Available in two sizes:

- CARITOOL (P42): maximum load: 5kg, weight: 25g

- CARITOOL L (P42 L): maximum load: 15kg, weight: 60g

 

 

p42-1.jpg

 

p42-2.jpg

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any rubber bandy things to attach them to the gear loop for us lefties whose left side attachment is waaaay to far back?

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Layton, still working on attachments....not a big fan of rubber bands but understand the concept :) harness clip is a pita to incorporate. I'll make it work one way or another for both left and right handers. Why do the harness companies do that anyway?

 

I use both sides to rack screws on!

 

Weights

 

BD OZ (a real biner) is 26g or .9oz on my scale under the 1oz that BD lists.

 

actual weight of Petzl Caritool I have here is 28g or .9 oz

 

actual weight of the aluminum prototypes shown are 40g or 1.4oz

 

What ever design I end up with absolute maximum weight would be under 2oz. But no matter how we do it size will matter.

 

amh.sized.jpg

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It'd be nice if you could come up a tool clipper with no clip for quick ice tool holstering and deployment. It seems that the clip gates, opening size, and nose of these "biners" are specifically designed for ice screw, not for clipping your tool. I'm not a great mixed climber so maybe my technique is bad, but I always fiddle fuck around getting my tool in and out of the biner. I definitely like a gate on my racking biner for screws, but i wonder about it's worth for hanging ice tools. I guess i could just tape the biner back to the spine? Dane, you need to come up with some revolutionary tool holstering design. I always wished there was a huge strip of velcro or magnet on my shoulder/pec region of my shell I could just stick the tool on :)

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Mike I agree. Putting a Quark or a Nomic on a plastic clipper "blind" is a pita. I generally don't and use a "body holster" on the neck becaue of it.

 

But I really get bugged about hanging tools at the end of the day for the rap. So what ever comes out of this it will hold a tool securely and be easy to place a tool into. I might make two styles, screw and tool rackers.

 

Good stuff keep it coming.

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i forgot about my other stupid tool racking idea - a biner on the jacket on the front of the shoulder.

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Hi Dane & Fellow Climbers,

 

I would likely be a buyer (depending on the final look of the product, how it attaches to the harness, price, etc.). I have only had one instance where my BD plastic racking "biner" broke, and fortuately it was close to the ground so it was easy to pick up the spilled screws. But I was surprise at how easily the BD racking "biner" broke--not as robust a product as I had assumed. So the idea of something made of alumimum is an improvement. I support some of the comments made by others regarding method of harness attachment, etc.

But here is something not commented on by others--I like the fact you used anodized alumimum (red in the picture). In one or two very limited low light situations (end of day, blizzard, etc.) I have reached down for a screw and had to focus and blink twice to see what I was reaching for. That is partly because my soft-shell pants are also black--so it is black on black. I admit this is a very minor and limited detail. But having a red (or other color) anodized racking biner might be a very slight advantage in low light situations, so I see that as a positive feature of what you are working on.

That is my "two cents."

 

Cheers and Safe Climbing,

 

Bob Loomis, Spokane, WA

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I like it!

I like the fact that there is no gate 'hook' - makes one less thing to snag the pro on when removing it. I have been using a couple of wild Country blind gate biners for racking screws/pins/nuts - the opening could be bigger, but the blind gate is nice.

 

Another reason to not make it full strength is the cost of liability insurance, which I suspect is a large part of the cost of any carabiner.

 

If these will rack tools as you are planning, you can put me down for five of em.

 

Jim Couch

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... In one or two very limited low light situations (end of day, blizzard, etc.) I have reached down for a screw and had to focus and blink twice to see what I was reaching for. That is partly because my soft-shell pants are also black--so it is black on black. I admit this is a very minor and limited detail. But having a red (or other color) anodized racking biner might be a very slight advantage in low light situations, so I see that as a positive feature of what you are working on.

 

If that's the reason for anodizing, then you're better to use a brighter colour - yellow or bright blue or lime green or something. As ambient light levels decrease, I think your eye loses the ability to distinguish colours at the red end of the spectrum first. So while red shows up well in daylight, it's among the first colours to disappear in the gloom.

 

That's only about a half or even a quarter of two-bits worth, if that even, but it's all I've got right now.

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Sign me up for five...

 

Thoughts:

 

- bright, neon yellow or green or pink would stand out against a lot of clothing, harnesses, gear, etc.

- a hook on top would be nice, but it would have to be bigger than the Petzl ones as I find it too small and awkward to use

- fitting two Nomics on one biner and having both hang down vertically would be amazing

 

For harness attachment, I'd like it to attach in a way such that it's flexible if pressed on (i.e. will twist to either side under pressure) and also have more options to attach to rather than just the clipper slots.

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