Scotch-a-Go-Go Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Calling on the new turks to do an old guy a favor and explain this for my memories sake. Is 4th class REALLY only low grade 5th on rotten rock with no pro? Or was it all just a bad dream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish_wanker Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 4th class is tougher than 3rd class but less than low 5th class with pro. Take out the pro and it is 4a. Add choss and it is 4d or 5.0a/x/r but on the other hand if it has choss but good pro??? it then is 5.0b. 5.0c is used when there is good pro,choss and mist.If there is fog it becomes 5.0e/r. I hope this is no perfectly clear. Seriously form my limited experience up here ,4th class in the cascades is some serious stuff for the unprepared and unware. Good climbing, a few more posts and you'll be a wanker like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtngrrrl Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 This raises a questions I've been pondering... what is "mid-fifth class"? Does that mean 5.5 ish? Or do you take all of the 5th classes--5.0 to 5.14, plus all the a, b, c, and d's--and divide down the middle? That seems dumb, and I suspect I'm over analyzing the situation. Can anyone confirm? Also, why would some route descriptions go to the trouble of saying things like "Pitch four is solid 5.6 with blah blah blah for protection. Pitch five is mid-fifth class. Pitch six has a 5.4 chimney." etc. etc. Why throw in mid-fifth class instead of a numeric rating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch-a-Go-Go Posted August 28, 2002 Author Share Posted August 28, 2002 Actually, I was just joking around. If I remember right, 4th class was where you had two potential techniques; either pray and spin your legs like road runner and if yr behind make sure you aren't far behind your partners "wake", or go the ballet route and simul/belay using tie offs on shrubbery and the larger blocks that haven't yet slid. And maybe pound a pin into dirt if you are really sweating acid. If Beckey is updating the books is he now including definitions like that? It might be helpful to those new to the area. Nite all, off to take the Geritol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Here's a comprehensive report from the sprayin canadian : http://www.bivouac.com/ExpPg.asp?ExpId=102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch-a-Go-Go Posted August 28, 2002 Author Share Posted August 28, 2002 Oops, Mtngrrl, I spoke too soon about bedding down. I will respond with my humble thought before laying my aged head to rest. Mid 5th class means one of two things; either, "I can't remember how hard it was but it must have been easy since I didn't lead it", or it means "damn, there were some hard moves there even if my hiking boots WERE wet.". Either way, it means that "a rope was used", in much the same way that "mistakes were made" or maybe "it was decided that". Expect possible awkward, grabby stuff; read between the lines, prepare for worst, expect best. Or vice versa. Beddy bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letko_Andropoff Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Very appropriate topic. On the flip side is grade inflation, which dilutes the value of consistent, properly graded climbs. Beckey pegged them well in his intro to CAG #1, but look at Nelson's guide: Grade III for Rainier, D.C.? (Beckey I+); Grade II for Easton Glacier (Beckey I); or Smoot's "Rock Climbing in Washington": Grade III for Concord Cave Rte. and Grade III for South Arete, SEWS??? Nyet, comrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Letko Andropoff: Grade III for South Arete, SEWS??? Nyet, comrades. South Arete, SEWS becomes a Grade III when you're stuck behind a busload of ... The Toof might even be Grade IV then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard_brain Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gary Yngve: South Arete, SEWS becomes a Grade III when you're stuck behind a busload of ... ...Careful... [ 08-28-2002, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: lizard brain ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 4th class was two of the best years of my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch-a-Go-Go Posted August 29, 2002 Author Share Posted August 29, 2002 HAR! I think we have a winner. Bada dump tschhhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haireball Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Back in the days when "rock-climbing" was widely considered a sub-discipline of "mountaineering", and years before I had heard of the Yosemite Decimal System, "fourth class" was widely considered to be the level of difficulty/exposure where a mountaineering party employs a rope and formal belays, but little or no intermediate protection between belays stations. The problem with such a definition is its subjectivity. Depending on who is leading, "fourth class" might include difficulties to 5.8 or higher! A classic example would be the account George Lowe wrote of his climb on the South Buttress of Mt. Moran with Peter Habeler. Lowe reported that they had begun climbing unroped, but as the difficulties approached the 5.10a level, he raised the subject of roping up. Habeler reportedly laughed off the suggestion, thinking Lowe was joking... "surely you don't need a rope for THIS!?!" So the question arises: is the Habeler Variation on the South Buttress of Mt. Moran 5.10, as the guidebook states, or "third-class" (necessitating the use of hands for balance, but easy enough to do without a rope)? in current practice, the terms "third class" and "fourth class" are perhaps better understood as describing the style a particular climbing team used on a climb, rather than the difficulty of the actual climbing. -Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obvious_descent_gully Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 i am forth class... or am i? fear me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch-a-Go-Go Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Yes. You are the one I am talking about Obvious Descent Gully, and your friend, Exposed Scree-covered Traverse. Yes we may tremble in your presence but with the power of Ramen, you WILL be overcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Is 4th class climbing or scrambling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Depends on how tall you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 It's free soloing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 My experience with routes listed as 4th class is this: They have been routes where the actual physical climbing did not require any special technique(like say as hard as really steep stairs or a ladder, or getting onto a bunk bed), but a fall could be serious or fatal and a rope is highly recommended. Sometimes class 4 has just put me on exposed ledges I can pretty much walk on, maybe using my hands for security. If the rock is loose, the route description usually(not always) says something about that. On the other hand if the rock is solid, it is sometimes stated. If nothing is stated I pretty much prepare for whatever, but the rock quality hasn't been an issue on that route. Sometimes I've done a route listed as 4th class, but was actually, in my opinion, more like low class 5. Others may have different views and/or experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 this is a hilarous resurfacing of a shitty topic. fourth class is probably the most dangerous rating in climbing due to its' ambiguity in protection- but, that's chosspiles for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt_clipper Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 S face of the tooth is beckey 4th/5th class. But then again, so is the Maroon Traverse in Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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