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Alpine_Tom

RMI Crevasse rescue school

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quote:

Originally posted by none:
The thing about the prusik is, that it is the only friction knot that I know of (until proven wrong!) that runs both directions, whereas the autoblock and the bachman are one way.

By runs in both directions, do you mean that it'll cinch down and catch either way the rope pulls? The autoblock will do that too, though it might take the knot a foot or two to reset itself. Are you using it from an anchor directly to the rope, but not at a pulley point? I can't think why you'd want it to catch in both directions, since it would just bind up and prevent you from hauling... Curious...

m

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Someone asked good places for crevasse practice on Hood or elsewhere.

On Hood, the classic spot is the Eliot Glacier icefall. It has a many good cracks for practice. Access in late summer is easy from Cloud Cap along the east moraine. White River Glacier from Timberline is another option, but it can be a pain to drop down there off of Palmer.

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Yes, the business about the prusik working both directions is one of those minor points hardly worth argueing, but the prusik is small and easy to make. To answer the question, I'm using it both at the running pulley on the "z", and at the anchor "master" point to prevent losing your gained rope. The very rare situation where one might have to monkey with the system in order to change directions, or change ropes, etc. is where you may use the prusik to now work in the opposite direction, wheras the bachman and the kliemheist would have to be replaced. Haven't worked much with the autoblock, but I found it bulky and a little unwieldy, kind of like the garda-- I'll need to work with it some more, though.

The elliot(sp ?) is a great place to get in a crevasse, when they're showing!

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: none ]

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quote:

Originally posted by none:
Yes, the business about the prusik working both directions is one of those minor points hardly worth argueing, but the prusik is small and easy to make. To answer the question, I'm using it both at the running pulley on the "z", and at the anchor "master" point to prevent losing your gained rope. The very rare situation where one might have to monkey with the system in order to change directions, or change ropes, etc. is where you may use the prusik to now work in the opposite direction, wheras the bachman and the kliemheist would have to be replaced. Haven't worked much with the autoblock, but I found it bulky and a little unwieldy, kind of like the garda-- I'll need to work with it some more, though.

Interesting. I use the prussik at the "z", but an autoblock at the master point. I'm having trouble picturing how you're using the knot to load in the opposite direction, but that may be because of a lack of coffee...

I like the autoblock mostly because it's load-releasable unlike the prussik (unless you're superhuman). It is a little unwieldy, especially if you're working with a long piece of cord. I've got a couple of pieces cut with an autoblock in mind-- they're slightly shorter than a single length sling. Using cord instead of webbing makes the knot cleaner too... to each their own!m

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Yeah, good input on the autoblock. I use the munter mule to provide a belayed "let-out" or tension release. The tension release is required, since the possibility that one may have to abandon the original set-up in order to transfer to another rope is real (eg: if the rope is damaged, if the crvs lip is too big, etc.). I'm open to the possibility that the autoblock may be a simpler, faster set-up, but when the rope transfer becomes a reality, then you have to set-up a tension release system. The munter mule with "pulley friendly" friction knot is very powerful for immediate application, and for later exigencies.I guess I don't have a brilliant reason for needing a two way friction knot ( I could make up something, like the need to change the direction of the anchor 180 degrees iot protect the rescuers, but I'd be BSin' you ). I just find the prusik to be the simplest fr. knot with the most versatility. I do like the kliemheist, for a good wrap the end of the cordelette knot, for instance when placing a fr. knot on a taught rope, along with a munter mule, for various rescue purposes (eg: releasing the belayer fr the system).Many ways to do it! I'll certainly be exploring the autoblock some more, although I didn't like it for the rappel back-up. I forget why-- maybe it was too long, or too high friction...

[ 03-24-2002: Message edited by: none ]

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Will Strickland,

You obviously are not familiar with the strength tolerancesof a Wall Hauler. Rock Exotica clearly specified thatthis device NOT be used with live loads, as a climberwith a pack (and possibly sled) will be too close tothe failure point of the unit(I talked to them aboutthis). Petzl bought Rock Exotica and have come out withtwo devices that are meant to be used for "live" loads:one is called the "Mini Traxion" and the other one the"Pro Traxion". DO NOT use a "Wall Hauler"! Yeah, theGarda is lightweight, but it reduces your mechanicaladvantage. If you want a super lightweight and efficientsystem, try 2 locking biners, 2 Petzl Tiblocs and 1 pulley; bets are, that I could have this system setup while you were still putting your prusiks on therope; carry some leg loops and a sling and this turnsit into your self rescue system. All you really needto practice crevasse rescue is a 10+ ft. embankmentfor your "z" system and a tree/overhanging route topractice your self rescue, or sit around and wait forthe crevasses to open.

[Moon]

[ 03-24-2002: Message edited by: Richard Pumpington ]

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Another fine and light system. If you've never tried the munter mule system, give it some practice. When applied to the Crevasse Rescue, it is more versatile and lighter than using any manufactured device. Alpine kit: 1 or 2 pulleys (depending on load possibilities), 2 twenty ft. nylon cordelettes, biners , no belay device (HMS biner), appropriate snow pro.

[chubit]

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