kevbone Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. But you just said god does not exists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Please define god. An organizing force in the universe. Edit: Also, going out for a while, so don't expect a quick response to your disproval of every organizing force in the universe. Edited January 30, 2010 by gyro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Three gods in there own right. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 It just seems pretty arrogant (IM0) for anyone to think they know enough about the entire universe to state as fact that god does not exist. One could say that about believers too. Yes, but that does not make your statement "there is no god" any truer. (Que trashie's all-knowing wisdom for the next 50 pages of drivel.) Dood, WTF did I ever do to you to put so much sand in your coochie? Jesus.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Jesus.... that's right man, nobody fucks with the Jesus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 some atheists pray, but not to a god or a deity. orthodox buddhists are atheists, and they pray. i think prayer can be powerful stuff, whether or not one believes in a "god". I disagree wit ya on whether Buddhists are atheists. Some of the New Age varieties of Buddhism might fit your description but Buddhism is primarily a syncretic religion that merges local religious beliefs such as seen in Tibet with the Bon deities or in Japan with the Shinto kami. Furthermore, Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism combines Hindu and Buddhist icons. Of course, everything depends on your definition of what constitutes a god or an atheist. Could you agree that an atheist is simply a materialist in that he does not believe in existence apart from the corporeal body and as a materialist he chooses not to believe in god(s)? So, he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet Buddhism is chock full of the supernatural. Sure, real psychological insights might get you hooked into the religion but the ultimate goal is reaching the state of nirvana, that elusive goal that, it’s said, only one being achieves within aeons of Time. It seems to me that a tacit belief in the supernatural is prerequisite to the goal of Buddhist enlightened self-interest (compassion towards all sentient beings is the action that leads to nirvana). I suppose though if you were to take the New Age tact and practice a bastardized version of Buddhism as a technology of the body and mind then sure, go ahead and use autogenic suggestion, self-hypnosis, etc. You might eke out some performance gains but at some point you’ll reach a pinnacle where “biology is destiny”. i would say that the theistic forms of buddhism you mention above are "bastardized" versions of buddhism (tibetan, japanese) since they did exactly what you describe: combined the buddha's teachings with the local belief in deities and gods and such. what i was talking about was the buddha's own teachings (as much as we can trust them to be his, since i think it was the first council a while after his death that wrote them down) where he speaks of ignoring questions of "god" and "after-life" and "spirit" and such as being metaphysical speculation only. he spoke of trusting your own experiences, not simply having "faith" in some other-worldly saviour. was he an "atheist"? i don't know, but some of his words could certainly lead one to think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Are you confusing "bastardized" with syncretic? Bastardized should imply illegitimacy. Maybe a better word I could have used is "truncated" in that the popular Western mass approach to Buddhism is simply ethics, whereas in the East it appears more as an established religion. I don't believe one can talk credibly about Buddhism without speaking of the Three Jewels: Buddha, Sangha, and Dharma. So in that sense, one can't speculate as to a pure practice involving only the words of Gautama Buddha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Please define god. I don't think praying to Eddie will make you climb better. However if *listening* to Eddie before getting on a climb gives you that extra stoke to send, more power to ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 i don't think the distinction between "bastardized" and "syncretic" is entirely relevant to me, since they both indicate a change from the original teachings and ideas (which was my point). and i'm not sure what you mean in your second paragraph; i was simply paraphrasing something the buddha supposedly said. did what he say exist in a broader context, one that may have shifted the meaning in a different direction? sure, but i'm not sure that shift would occur with the introduction of the three jewels as context-broadeners, would it? i'm not terribly literate in buddhist texts, and it sounds like you might be, so share with me any theistic tendencies of the buddha, since i'm not aware of any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I gave a 'sermon' at a universalist unitarian church 2 weeks ago Who held the fire extinguisher? Hell, I may yet become a believer...in spontaneous human combustion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) I wore a tin foil underlayer as a make shift Faraday cage, just in case. Probably not necessary, as no one mentioned the word "God" at any time during the service. Edited January 30, 2010 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 It just seems pretty arrogant (IM0) for anyone to think they know enough about the entire universe to state as fact that god does not exist. One could say that about believers too. If I had a dime for every time somebody came up with this comment, presumably to prop up their shaky faith, I could buy the universe and call myself God. And so, for the millionth or so time... Atheism is personal decision to not believe in a God, just as faith is a personal decision to believe the opposite. Obviously (I hope), such personal decisions do not and cannot constitute verifiable 'fact'...I believe even ferrets and gerbils understand this distinction. Why such personal decisions would ever constitute arrogance is beyond me. If they are, then I suppose it's equally arrogant not to believe in the ravings of the next street corner psychotic one runs into...after all, you can't come up with any PROOF that the evil, invisible wombats attacking the city aren't really there. Also, I wanted to mention that Kevbone's inability to create ocean waves (don't we pretty much know how those are made at this point?) doesn't exactly usher me back into the fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Please define god. An organizing force in the universe. You think gravity is a god? Hmmm Do you wear a helmet when you climb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) Please define god. An organizing force in the universe. You think gravity is a god? Hmmm Do you wear a helmet when you climb? ...sorry, just had a matrix flash back. What makes you 'believe' the universe is organized? Edited January 31, 2010 by mike1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyleaf Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 WEbsters: Believe: to have confidence in the truth, existence, reliability, or value of something.2. to hold as an opinion; suppose, think Faith:confidence or trust in a person or thing. 2. Belief that is not based on proof.... Those words are used too often. They wouldn't hold up well in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Please define god. An organizing force in the universe. You think gravity is a god? Hmmm Do you wear a helmet when you climb? What makes you 'believe' the universe is organized? Gravity has formed large clouds of relatively homogenous gas and dust into galaxies of stars, singularities and planets surrounded by vacuum. That process is organization according to the definition of organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) Please define god. An organizing force in the universe. You think gravity is a god? Hmmm Do you wear a helmet when you climb? What makes you 'believe' the universe is organized? Gravity has formed large clouds of relatively homogenous gas and dust into galaxies of stars, singularities and planets surrounded by vacuum. That process is organization according to the definition of organization. hmmm, you got me there. Gravity is an organizing force and by definition the Universe is organized, albeit randomly. Damn Webster’s anyways... I still think your comment was funny. Edited January 31, 2010 by mike1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 god is my tolip-oc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) god is death. death is life. Edited January 31, 2010 by Kimmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 god is defiburcation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 the god which can be spoken of is not god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 God is all knowing. God knows the quantum state of all particles. God knows the position and velocity of all particles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 The Universe is organized chaotically, not randomly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Please define god. An organizing force in the universe. god is not an office manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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