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Norman_Clyde

unroped on a glacier?

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CrazyJZ,

 

I work for a guide service. The CZ combination is something that we teach all the time.

 

If you put yourself out there then you should be able to take care of yourself and those that you're with. After proper training a single person CAN pull another single person out of a crevasse quickly and effectively... And when I say quickly I'm not talking about hours here, I'm talking about minutes. If the problem in the crevasse is severe, it's best that you know what you're doing.

 

Jason

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Jason (ie: shit for brains), I have probably been climbing longer than you have been alive. I have also been on expiditions on several continents. Bite me.

 

[ 05-23-2002, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: crazyjz ]

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Let's chill out dudes. AAI's better than RMI or Mounties is it not? [Wink]

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Down with Jason Martin.

 

JM Quote

"I'm a guide, I'm a guide. lalala look at me all dressed up in my new guiding tutu."

 

All I have to say is that in a controlled environment I'm sure your system works. In the real world it might not work so well.

 

CJZ does rigging as part of his job. Also CJZ has been climbing since before you were just a cheap six pack in your dad's favorite grocery store. In short I value CJZ's opinion and not yours. [Wazzup]

 

Like SOCM said "Back to Summitpost"

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CrazyJZ and Alpine K,

 

I know you guys are actually one...

 

A few things...

 

1) I don't understand the animosity. I don't believe I attacked you in previous posts...

 

2) You should look into a penile implant. It might do you good. You know, give you a little courage. Perhaps you wouldn't hide behind a pretend name while attacking someone you don't know.

 

3) I will not be responding to you personally again. You're lack of knowledge and indeed your very existence is simply not worth my time.

 

Jason

 

[ 05-23-2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Jason Martin ]

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I am neither cjz or pineyK but I think Jason is being wha wha I am a wnhiny guide i know what is what even though i have only been climbing less than 1/2 as ong as you' about the whole thing. Martin go back to drilling holes in your toothbrush like Ed Veisturs.

 

besides everyone knows that you dont use pulleys for crevasse rescue you use NITRO

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JM,

I don't think you responded to Crazy's point. That is, if you are alone out there and can't get your buddy out of the crevasse with a Z, it is doubtful that constructing a ZC is gonna make the difference between him living and dying.

 

Can you comment on this?

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Mechanical advantage really isn't the issue, as some have pointed out, you can frequently haul directly. Whether you've only got a C w/ biners or you have a winch out there, it's the lip that matters, and the surface on which you are pulling.

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If your partner is bleeding or severely injured, the sooner you can get him out the better. On the other hand, one could rappel down into the hole and provide first aid. Obviously it is situation dependent. For example, if the guy is not breathing, it is nearly imposible to provide effective CPR in a hole.

 

The CZ is a fast way to get him out of the hole and provide appropriate treatment for his injuries.

 

I agree with Iain, the lip is a huge deal. There was a case in Alaska where a woman was crushed against the lip and killed because they had excellent mechanical advantage, but kept pulling. It appeared that she got heavier but they didn't do anything about it. They didn't check and see why.

 

Clearing the lip is one of the most important steps to a successful rescue.

 

Jason

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JM aka idiot.

 

CJZ and I are two very different people. CJZ has spent summers in The Valley but I haven't. I ski a lot, but CJZ doesn't. If you were at the last Pub Club you could have met the two of us. We might not use real names, but we aren't afraid to meet other CC'rs at the crag or at the pub.

 

We share the same opinion, along with Dru, that guides can be whiney little bitches though

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blah blah blah.

 

jasons alrght - just take a sec to see past the label or the profession

 

[Wazzup]

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Jason (ie: shit for brains),

 

Like ChucK said, you were not respomding to my point before you started off telling us how great you are because you are a PROFESSIONAL MOUNTAIN GUIDE. A CZ has added mechanical advantages, but also increase the need for pulleys by 50%. A team of two in a big creavasse is always fucked. You have to anchor the rope, place a main haul anchor, pad the lip, etc. All this with only the gear that the upper person has available. And your point about CPR, face it, in the aforementioned scenerio, CPR is only going to prolong death.

 

I bet I know alot more than you do, but those pictures of you in Red Rocks sure are cute. I am kinda ugly and scraggly.

 

[ 05-24-2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: crazyjz ]

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We've probably all descended past hoards of roped-up "Bataan death-marcher/survivers" and laughed at their hideous conditions while they, at the same time, were censuring us for bounding down the mountain like crazy chimps. There is no tidy answer to your question. Sorry. Dennis

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quote:


There is no tidy answer to your question.

quote:


Exactly, which is what keeps the discussion going for 3 pages (that and some chest-beating one-upmanship).

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quote:

Originally posted by crazyjz:

Jason (ie: shit for brains),

 

...in the aforementioned scenerio, CPR is only going to prolong death..

Finally, the secret of eternal death is revealed...

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quote:

Martin go back to drilling holes in your toothbrush like Ed Veisturs.

 

NITRO
[/QB]

Ah now make up your minds, how the hell am I gonna fill in the holes in my toothbrush.

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If any of you PUSSIES had a hair on your asses you would just keep walkin' and drag the unfortunate one out of the hole [Roll Eyes]

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quote:

Many group leaders (like the mountaineers) disagree.

Don't the mountaineers carry an extra rope in thier extermely overloaded packs just in case a bear chews through their rope.

 

Really though, I'm a superstitious Irish drunk. I need my rope. What if...

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Roping to the wrong people can be as bad as not roping at all. I was on an RMI climb this spring. One of our rope teams was comprised of two highly suspect climbers (conditioning and experience an issue) and one guide. There was no way they were going to be able to self-arrest a fall and no way the guide was going to be able to self-arrest for them. One of them fell and the team ended up in a crevasse and had to be airlifted off the mountain. I learned a very important lesson that day; always know the skills of the person you’re roping to.

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I have self arrested falls and I have unroped on many glaciers. Conditions usually permit when and how much of it I do.

 

If it is later in the summer I am more likely to go solo.

 

I climbed over a mile up a glacier last week unroped and across crevasses.... Just give them a wide berth and be smart about when you decide to do it.

 

[ 08-23-2002, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

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were those the two who were going to be married? I'd be freaked as a guide w/ two totally new climbers as ropemates on the mountain!

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