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Kane

First Ascent Clothing - New choices

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Eddie Bauer was supplying down for k2 in 1953 and the first successful Everest expedition in 1963.

 

The first successful Everest expedition was in '53 and Eddie Bauer wasn't involved.

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BTW.... As I stated, I was given the jacket and due to BO odor in it from someone who may have worn it I "had" to wash the jacket. IMHO, any down jacket should be able to withstand at least a few gentle washings in a commercial top loader as recommended by every manufacture.

 

I might be wrong, but aren't you always recommended to use a front loader? Did the washer you used have one of those agitators in it?

Edited by JBo6

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No. Excuse me, I said top loader in my last post and meant front loader. The washer I used was a commercial front loader without any agitators in it. I also set it to gentle cycle and used Nix Wax Down soap. When I compare my FF product with my FA product, IMO there really is not a comparison but again, I admit, I'm not a fabric material, sewing, or climbing gear manufacture or design expert.

 

Will I be using this jacket for rainier this year, probable. Will I be taking it to Aconcagua, Denali, and Cho Oyu, this year, no.

Edited by ASmith

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Eddie Bauer was supplying down for k2 in 1953 and the first successful Everest expedition in 1963.

 

The first successful Everest expedition was in '53 and Eddie Bauer wasn't involved.

 

I think he was talking about the first American everest summit.

 

I got a First Ascent downlight puffy for xmas and I will update as I abuse the ever living hell out of it.

I picked it out because it appears to be the same quality of the MH nitrous jacket at almost 50bucks less.

 

Build quality seems pretty good since I tried to tear the seams in front of the Saleslady telling her I always rip stuff when I fall and she freaked out thinking was trying to rip it... which I was and failed to do so.

 

-Toddi

 

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I be using this jacket for rainier this year, probable.

 

Allen you are going to get beat up again :) No one in their right mind would use a XV on Rainier...except on summit day in winter.. MAYBE. And only then if the conditions were really shitty. Or wash a decent down jacket...any decent down jacket with baffles... in a machine...any machine. YMMV of course. But any manufacture is dumb to suggest it....just be glad they offer that LIFETIME warrenty on a 2nd hand item!!

 

Feathered Friends makes GREAT gear. We own a bunch of it and have for years. But IMO the EB XV stands inspection side by side to the FF Front Point parka and comes out equal if not the better of the two for actual climbing. Did just that last night. Even at the same price? I'd take the XV. But they aren't the same price, FF is $429 and the EB $269. I've looked at a number of really nice belay/Bivy style jackets over the last few days and few are as good. Only the Norrøna Lyngen ($378.,) looks to be as technical a piece as the XV. But I have not laid my hands on one to make a direct comparison. The Mammut hooded Ambler is another comparable down bivy/belay jacket. ($300) Many others should be relagated to shoveling the side walk...in a T shirt 'cuz no way I'd ever climb in one :)

 

Been awhile since I've seen a decent down jacket I'd want to climb and/or sleep in. So I am really STOKED on the EB XV!

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Dane,

 

What can I say, thank you so much you made my morning. I really appreciate your generosity and eagerness to openly share all of your vast knowledge, experience, and thoughts that I can learn from and of course your opinions which are just that..... your opinions.

 

Thank you again, as you have made my morning by reminding me that I'm so blessed and to give thanks everyday that we all live in a country where we have the right to have our own thoughts and opinions and most importantly to be able to express them, and our experiences, in an open public forum where we can openly express them without fear of being attacked for them. Unfortunately, not everyone in this world can say that.

 

May the good things of life be yours in abundance, not only at the beginning of the new year but for, and in, all things thru out the year.

Allen

Edited by ASmith

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Has anybody Tried out the the EB Rainier Guide pants yet? I recieved a set for X-mas, but also just managed to pick up an older set of Mountain Hardwear Argon Ice pants and need to make a decision about which to keep!

 

Their damn near identical in feel and fabric density. Visual differences boil down to zippers, a belt, and about 2oz in favor the Argon Ice, but both are nice trim, clean, light hardshell pants.

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Geeze Allen, it is all in fun isn't it? Everyone gets an opinion it is the Internet after all. In a war of words helps to come armed and have a good collection of pictures:)

 

Are the current DAS parkas not as warm as the older ones?

 

Glad you asked as I am learning more about that myself. But long answer. Some Internet discussion going on about that right now. I've not used the new and thought the old one too warm for my normal climbing uses. As did many others. This time around I wanted a warmer jacket for some colder conditions (multiple days out in Canada up high) and might have bought one of the old ones this time around. (and it may turn out to be a mistake that I didn't buy the new one)

 

Most thought the old DAS the "gold standard" of belay jackets with generally rave reviews.

 

Then the thinner "belay/climbing" jackets appeared. Patagonia micro Puff Hoodie and the Mtn Hardware Compressor were two of the early ones. Since then belay/climbing jacket have gotten even lighter..down to sweater weight really. Arcteryx Atom Ltw is a good example but there are a few others out there as well.

 

Many Internet 'purts said Patagonai was going to a lighter weight DAS so you could climb better in it and the extra warmth wasn't required. Sounded reasonable to me. From a phone call to Patagonia this morning it turns out Patagonia and its designers had no intention of making the DAS lighter. What they were looking for was a better insulation. The old DAS used Polarguard 3D. The new DAS uses Primaloft I.

 

I think I know just how effecient Primaloft 1 is by comparing the Mtn Hardware Compressor (PL1) to the Patagonia Mirco Puff Hoody (PG3D) in use. Compressor is way warmer than it has any right to be given it's thickness and realtive compressability.

 

The previous pictures of Collin Haley on Hunter in a new DAS first turned on the light bulb for me. So I started asking more questions.

 

After my phone call to Patagonia I just sent out a couple of emails this morning asking guys I trust that have used both old and new DAS their input. I'll post the input. But my take after an education this morning is the new DAS should be even better (lighter, easier to compact into a smaller package and just as warm or maybe even warmer) than the old DAS as a belay jacket.

 

 

Old DAS insulation 200 in the body 160 in the arms

 

POLARGUARD 3D 7 denier

This is continuous filament, meaning it is manufactured in a singe strand that when spun together forms the loft (up to 8,000km long). The main feature of 3D is that is has a hollow cored fibre that has a triangular cross section, making it both warmer than a straight solid fibre and more resistant to compression, meaning it will maintain its loft even with a lot of hard abuse. The fibres are very fine (14 microns) and slick, meaning it’s soft and very compressible - perhaps not as compressible as other fills but this translates into a longer loft life.

 

New DAS insulation 170 in the body and 130 in the arms

 

PRIMALOFT PL1 sub 1 denier

This is an ultra fine short filament (15 microns) fibre, meaning that instead of having a single strand you’ve got something far more like down (seven microns) with a vast number of individual fibres being stabilized by a thermally bonded scrim. Primaloft was originally designed for the US army as a viable alternative to down, being very warm (warmer than it looks, in fact) and compressible and it is perhaps the nearest we’ve got to man-made down so far. The individual fibres have a special water-resistant coating giving the fill a very high water resistance, absorbing very little moisture and drying fast. The down side of the fill’s down-like qualities is that it is slightly more affected by repeated compression - although in clothing this isn’t as big a factor as in sleeping bags.

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This back from one of my buddies with as much time in a DAS as anyone. On the new DAS....

 

"Warmer. about 20% warmer. And it's significantly more compressible. I think this is the biggest single improvement...made in the DAS. It will look like it isn't that puffy when you first get it. Toss it in a hot dryer for 15 minutes and it will puff right up (it gets compressed during shipping)."

 

 

 

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Geeze Allen, it is all in fun isn't it? Everyone gets an opinion it is the Internet after all. In a war of words helps to come armed and have a good collection of pictures:)

 

Dane,

 

Agreed, It's all good. :poke:

 

Shoveling the drive in the XV with help from our search/service dog who thinks someone "must" be buried there ;')

 

IMG_0084.jpg

 

IMG_00293.JPG

 

2009 Mt Rainier 11k, met up with John & Oliva Race, Sierra loves her Pro Bars

 

DSC00017.JPG

Edited by ASmith

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The MtnHW Compressor is a fabulous piece of clothing in every respect. Love mine.

 

So is it the Mtn Hdwr Compressor or the DAS?

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Hard call now that they fixed the DAS

 

I basically have a Compressor for no hood and two Marmot Photons (no longer made) for when I want a hood. These days, for the money, I'd go for a two Compressors - one with hood, one without. That said, the hooded compressor comes in at 526gm and the DAS at 737gm, so I'm guessing the new DAS is now the warmer of the choices.

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DAS was always the warmer of the two, between Compressor Hoody and DAS in any version.

 

Better comparison is Compressor and the Micro Puff now that they are both using Primaloft as of this year.

 

 

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Dane,

 

Just curious... How much did you pay for the XV and where? Your previous post says you bought both for less than the retail price of the XV alone which is $269.00?

 

From your post I went toEB to get a down jacket for my son and the XV was not on sale. I spoke to the store manager, who I know, and she said no sale.... ever. She then called the Seattle store and corporate and still no sale. Hummmmmm

 

All the fleece, both EB and FA is on 50% off and I got my wife the female version of the fleece you purchased ( Monkey Man copy) and a Bat Wing Hoodie (R1 Hoodie copy).

 

Where did you get the XV on sale?

Edited by ASmith

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Whats the word on the Igniter Pants? They look comparable to the Mtn Hardwear Compressor Pant?

 

I just picked up the Igniter pants. Both the Compressor and the Igniter are 100g primaloft insulation so VERY similar.

I was sitting in snow for a few hours and didn't get any noticeable water though the shells.

The Compressors are full zip, and the Igniters are 7/8 zip, which makes them a pain to put on with crampons on.

So I would say YES. Quite comparable to the compressor pant. Almost exactly the same thing except for the side zips.

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Has anybody Tried out the the EB Rainier Guide pants yet? I recieved a set for X-mas, but also just managed to pick up an older set of Mountain Hardwear Argon Ice pants and need to make a decision about which to keep!

 

Their damn near identical in feel and fabric density. Visual differences boil down to zippers, a belt, and about 2oz in favor the Argon Ice, but both are nice trim, clean, light hardshell pants.

 

I picked up a pair this summer (along with the Big Tahoma pack), used them on Rainier and schwacking around the North Cascades. They seem very durable and breathe like a champ. I was a dumb ass (screwing around with my ice ax) and put the pick in my thigh, damn sure punctured the skin, but didn't rip the pants.

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Bronco's newest EB sale deserves a BIG bump....get it while it lasts....$188 for the XV is silly money.

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Dane/Allen: how well does the XV parka compress? I loves me my Wild Things Belay Parka (Primaloft) but it doesn't pack down too well. Might have to pick up the XV at the sale price...

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XV is about the same as the WT...but I'll have more detailed info in a few days. No question the XV is worth the sale price and retail price for that matter imo.

 

If you are looking for a jacket that is tiny in the pack this aint it. But it is also one of the warmest ( a step up over the WT BJ and most everything else) when it comes to real climbing jackets available....just no free lunch.

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Hey Dane,

 

I sure looks like you've got quite a lot of interest in climbing equip/gear, and your reviews sound very helpful - especially in the ice tool dept.

 

Where (specifically) are you testing this stuff out? And do you work in the outdoor industry?

 

I'm curious since your reviews seem very thoughtful, I'd like to know where they are coming from.

 

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No industry connections.

 

The reviews posted here at CC.com have simply come from my own purchases and the search for product knowledge that I try to pass along. Those purchases are the majority of time, but not always, done at full retail for those that have wondered.

 

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Oops, I wasn't insinuating that! I was just curious since your reviews are the most thought out of any poster here.

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