Lafayette Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hey Guys, So I´m down in Argentina with a buddy of mine. Due to weather we were unable to summit Aconcagua via the Polish Direct, and instead ended up traversing. For the past two weeks we had a third climber, met over summit post, who ´joined´ our ´team.´ We´ll call him Blanco. Blanco is pretty much the most useless climber I´ve ever met. At least if I bring a girlfriend into the mountains I can see some benefit. With Blanco, other groups were asking us if we were working as guides. For two weeks he didn´t contribute shit to the team, relying on us to ferry loads, boil water for him, gather snow, and adjust our plans for a Plaza Argentina exit. (He wasn´t able to make the carry over the pass to exit the other side.) On summit day we woke up and got gear up. Blanco was outside saying he was ready to go when I pointed out that he was wearing a pair of convertible pants, and no snow or wind layer. He was surprised it was so windy. After weeks of question his mental, fitness, and equipment preparation we basically had to say what the hell are you doing. He would have froze and it would have been our fault. His excuse was that he didn´t think he would have made it to camp 2 if he´d had to carry all his gear. He left wind, and down pants at base camp. Another example of his skills was when he tried to explain how much shorter it would be to exit down the horcones valley. This was until I showed him that you needed to exit to the road and not just the random park boundry line on the map. (Author´s note, it is still shorter, but he was looking at the thing on the map.) When looking at random small snow peak, he claims wow isn´t it beautiful. This is looking north up the valley, Acon is the giant mountain to the west that has a ton of snow on it. Look, maybe this is a bad diatribe but his claims before the trip were the ability to climb WI5, doing Denali, North Ridge on Baker, and a few years of experience in the cascades. He later revealed his WI5 was on up to 80 deg ice, I dunno too much about ice climbing but figure WI5 is harder than that. He might have had expedition experience, but he couldn´t work either our jet boil or the whisper lite. Which tells me that for three weeks his partners had to do all the cooking for him. My partner and I basically felt we were guides and he was our responsiblity. Maybe I´m just trying to relase some stress by venting, and I apologize for the useless diatribe. But these are only a couple of many situations that he put us in that not only made more work for ourselves, but challenged us to change plans and accomodate Blanco. When we got back to Mendoza he never even bought us a beer or a dinner for having to carry his weight (figuratively and literally.) My question is, should I reveal on Summit Post that this guy is a twinky who overstates his experience? He has plans on doing the rest of the seven summits, and I would hate for somebody else to be partnered with this ass bag. Or should I just relax, drink some more wine, and find more senoritas to cool hot head. Maybe the act of venting will be enoug therapy in itself. I´ve met some great climbers via CC and SP, but will take a long hard look at the next guy. Adios, W!ll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Save someone else's ass and tell it like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchuck71 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Piston Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Good object lesson here...choose your partners carefully. Your health and life can depend on it. I learned this the hard way when I was sport climbing and got dropped 25 feet by a guy my regular climbing partner brought along. This guy was supposed to be experienced (my partner hadn't really climbed with him before). I trusted my partner and took his word that this guy was a capable belayer. I said "Take", and the next thing I know I'm dropping to the deck. I broke my pelvis and had internal bleeding. I recovered fully after several months, but it could have been worse. I have also met some great climbers on this site, but you have to use good judgment. If a person has trouble tying his shoes, I'd be worried about tying in to a rope with them. You literally trust your life to the person on the other end of the rope. What to do about "Blanco" I don't know. You wouldn't want someone else to get paired up with a walking objective hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchuck71 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Holy crap Piston! SCARY! I guess I will just keep climbing alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 My question is, should I reveal on Summit Post that this guy is a twinky who overstates his experience? He has plans on doing the rest of the seven summits, and I would hate for somebody else to be partnered with this ass bag. Or should I just relax, drink some more wine, and find more senoritas to cool hot head. Yes! I would think that if the last group who were doing the adult supervision thing for blanco had mentioned it online, as painful as that may have been, you would have been spared. Furthermore, dudes like that can easily get you killed in addition to themselves. This guy needs to hear the honest appraisal of his abilities as well as warning his future victims partners. THEN you should relax, drink some more wine, and find more senoritas once your work is over.... THEN you should post a Trip report over here and use folks real names so we are all clued in! Anyway, that's the sequence as I see it, whatever you chose to do, make yourself happy. Hope you had a good trip otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaredSilly Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Sure post up if he was not the partner you hoped. Especially, if his action endangered or prevented the group from accomplishing your goals. Just be honest about what you personally observed, i.e. do not question or discuss what he presented as his previous experience - may be true, may be a lie but best to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I had a similar thing happen on Denali and again in the Enchantments. Obviously, the Enchantments thing was a minor inconvenience but the Denali fiasco could have been life threatening. Anyway, I posted warnings about both. If someone else would have done that for me it would have saved a lot of greif for everybody. And besides, these people are lazy, self absorbed, assholes. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU FOR ONE SECOND. You owe them nothing and will be doing the rest of us a huge favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hey Guys, When we got back to Mendoza he never even bought us a beer or a dinner for having to carry his weight (figuratively and literally.) W!ll If he had said at the end of the trip -"ya know, I overestimated my abilities and I'm grateful for your help and tolerance on the trip - beer and dinner on me" Then maybe you could all chalk it up to a lesson learned. So another vote for yes - post as a warning. Save other folks. Definately emphasizes the need for a shakeout climb for something so committing. Would like to see the trip report as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rutl Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 If he had said at the end of the trip -"ya know, I overestimated my abilities and I'm grateful for your help and tolerance on the trip - beer and dinner on me" Then maybe you could all chalk it up to a lesson learned. So another vote for yes - post as a warning. Save other folks. Definately emphasizes the need for a shakeout climb for something so committing. Would like to see the trip report as well. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 His name was Jake_Porter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 No way. Jake Porter will love you long time, and buy you a beer afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I met my partner for the first time for this trip in the SEA airport right before flying to ANC. Sometimes you get lucky... sometime you dont. Ideally climbing with someone before a trip matters but I dont think it is a requirement. Next time instead of asking "what do you lead" ask about recent trips they have been on... if he posts on a BB (sounds like he does) look at his TRs and such. I think you can get a fairly good feel for what someone can and cant do through some dialogue. And not being familiar with the Polish route: does being able to lead WI5 matter? My understanding is it is mostly hiking (could be fully wrong about this)? I would more focus in on the skill that matter next time (expedition experience, altitude experience, etc etc) and ignore the stuff that doesnt really make or break your chances of the summit. Sure you could post a warning about that specific person but it isnt like he cant register a new name or something. Why not chalk it up as a learning experience and instead of outing the person instead post a generic warning against going on big trips with people you dont know...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Most of the people I have climbed with from the internet have been great people. The two I posted about were major pains in the ass. I think they can benefit from the "learning experience" of hearing how their LACK of actions affect other people. Also, with a trip like Denali or Acancogua, finding the right people is important. The internet is not a good SINGLE source of information on potential climbing partners. These stories help to make that clear to all as well as expose the errant individuals. I am in favor of posting names and events when they are obviously way out of line. The benefits outweigh the negatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaredSilly Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 And not being familiar with the Polish route: does being able to lead WI5 matter? My understanding is it is mostly hiking (could be fully wrong about this)? The Polish Route is similar to the Emmons on Rainier. Funny, I just remembered that on our trip up the hill my partner did all the carries. I just went from camp to camp to summit. Of course he did all of one carry while I was sick. After that we just schlepped all of our crap up the hill and back down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstow Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I agree with all the above. Espically about the TR on here so we all can know too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkW Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Post his name if you want to but if I were you I'd be asking myself why I made the decision to continue climbing with someone when it was obvious they were a liability instead of an asset. I've turned around in the middle of climbs because it became obvious to me that the person I was climbing with was full of shit. It's all about personal accountability and instead of worrying about whether or not this might happen to someone else I would be spending the time examining why I didn't kick this d-bag to the curb as soon as I found out he couldn't operate a stove. WTF were YOU thinking continuing on? ...and summit post is a waste of time...so much bad beta mostly from people who don't get out much but really enjoy talking about being out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_joe Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 ...and summit post is a waste of time...so much bad beta mostly from people who don't get out much but really enjoy talking about being out... Kevbone is on summitpost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montypiton Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) If you DON'T post, and the guy is killed and or kills someone else on one of his remaining "seven summits" attempts, how will you feel? Sure, you may get a few ignoramuses bitching about your "outing" this character, but if I were in your shoes, it would be a matter of conscience -- something I would feel compelled to do if I want to be able to live with myself. Your outing this character could save a life! From the sound of things, not doing so is likely to cost one or more. Edited December 30, 2009 by montypiton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crack Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Man I think it's only fair if you let "Blanco" himself know exactly what your thoughts are too...it could be just the constructive catalyst to help rectify The Negativity -and DANGER!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans_Blix Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Don't post his name. I think it's lame and you should have done your homework on this guy (i.e. climbed with him) beforehand. Actually, I would suggest that you're somewhat responsible for this if you think about it. Furthermore, it's not your job to be the idiot police on SP or CC.COM. I'm with Atriedes on this one - you should have taken a proactive role while on the mouintain and dumped him or had a serious ass heart to heart. That is also part of the deal with climbing, IMO. It sounds like you had the clues, but choose to let something, perhaps your summit fever or lack of your own confidence, taint your ability to address a real issue? Regardless, sometimes it doesn't pay to be the nice guy. All this said, I can't even imagine going on a three week climbing trip (shit, three days) and NOT celebrating or buying my partners drinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 As one who has climbed with a variety of pick up partners and cimbing shop bulletin board partners and cc.com partners over the years, I'll say that I agree with those who suggest that prudence is in order. On the other hand, I'll tell you that I have done some of the biggest climbs of my career with pick-up partners. On average, I'd say that you are probably better off going to your target crag or range and looking for someone who is there and actually appears qualified than answering a bulletin board or Internet post - but I've had excellent results with either - and very bad. and I'm talking about destinations ranging from the Himalayas to Exit 38. As to the question of whether you have an obligation to report the "unqualified disaster" of a partner who you climbed with in South America or Exit 38? I'm not so sure about that. Yes, we'd all want to be spared of the "negative" or even "potentially disasterous" experience you had, but your "friend" may or may not prove to be such a disaster on future trips. If anyone asks whether you would recommend so and so as a partner your obvious answer would be "no." But do you have an obligation to "report" them? Is that what cc.com or any other bulletin board should be -- a place for people's reputations to be trashed based on one poster's negative experience? Just as prudence may be in order when climbing with somebody you don't know, I think it may also be in order when posting on the Internet about somebody you may not really know. And if you actually know them, well then there are different issues to consider ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climbzemountains Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Might be a good idea if you just be straight up with "Blanco". Tell him he needs to shape up if he wants to have successful, safe, and fun trips. Let him know that he can put himself and others in danger if he continues the way he's doing things. Tell him he's lucky you all didn't leave him to fend for himself, and helped him how you did. Let him know that in the future, partners might not be as forgiving, and an un-fun, or even potentially disasterous, situation would occur, for everyone. I can't comment on whether to let the community know of this guy. But I'd say letting Blanco know that his actions will not fly is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 So we have heard from the "cooler heads". But I still dissagree. Perhaps you should not post a name but do post everything else. Then PM any would be partners with a linky to your misadventure. Narcissism is what is at play here. I have intimate experience with this disorder. We all tend to marry what we are familiar with. So my life story is now out of the bag (until recent years). I was told that "you cannot expect a narcissist to change". The inability to see oneself, warts and all is the hallmark of narcissism. "I want therefore you must" is all there is. All else is merely an obstacle to be manipulated or brow-beaten into submission. Thinking that a "heart to heart" or some other form of reason will have any effect on a narcissist is a gross missunderstanding of the situation. The best hope is to present your goals in terms of the narcissist's benefit package. The second most effective means of getting your needs adressed is to write it on a two-by-four and smacking the narcissist in the face with it. In reality, you will not get any closer to getting your general needs met no matter what you do. It is not about you stupid. But the two-by-four method will leave you with a sense of satisfation not often acheived in dealings with the narcissist. I for one would appreciate knowing about these people before I get on a rope with them (or marry them). This is not true of every disagreement or misunderstanding. Just the obviously-way-out-of-line-disaster-waiting-to-happen types of which I have only met two online. Best regards to all. Please don't tell my ex-wife I posted about her. Bug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Just curious. Is Blanco a russian born jewish guy now residing in Chicago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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