RokIzGud Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Another gear question… I have been thinking about getting a pair ice tools (for both alpine and waterfall ice) but I can’t decide between leashless or not. I have only used a pair with leashes (older pair of BD Cobras) once and haven’t tested leashless tools. Would leashless tools be good for alpine? Muscle fatigue seems to be my main question though… Do your muscles give out faster without leashes? …Sorry for all the questions on here. I’m just really interested in ice. Its ‘cooler’ than rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 It is a complicated q and a. Depends on what you want to climb and are you leading? I just went l-less and it suits my technical style well. With the lanyards, it is also safer. If your ultimate goal is just go do 3 and 4,s it doesnt matter much but if you want to do mixed or lead hard ice, I think getting used to l-less is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 the classic leashless tool would be less than ideal for "normal" alpine climbs. Maybe hardman routes (very little usual snow climbing) would be good with leashless but a normal shaft (slight bend near the top and a fairly straight bottom half of shaft) would be better for more recreational alpine climbing. Just my opinion though. You can usually get a small grip added to make even those kinds of tools leashless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Stick with a set of older cheaper tools until you get the swing of things, then decide. One great compromise might be a set of older BD vipers with fang and androids, if you can find a pair on ebay or something. best of all worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Ice is "cool", but leashless is not. It is rather a very practical matter, and as such leashes are obsolete by now. Do your muscles give out faster without leashes? No. It certainly is a matter of skill and training, but if ice is so cool you need to start acquiring it (the skill that is) anyway. ...(older pair of BD Cobras)...A tool without a palm (pinky) support implement cannot be practically used without a leash. But as soon as you attach such an implement to a tool somehow I say just drop the leash. Do make or buy "umbillicals", but start out without a leash (you'll thank me later )! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokIzGud Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Thanks for the help everyone! I guess im going to have to try some different tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I have found (yesterday on the Scepter) that it is good to have a leash on my left hand while leading a steep section. Placing screws with a leash on your non-screw-placing hand is easier than hanging on a leashless "grip". I got very pumped placing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokIzGud Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 That makes sence. Have you heard anything about the CAMP Awaxs? I guess you can mod them so there L-less but you would still have the option of a leash on the left side. Do you think those would be good for a beginner or should i go with a more popular model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Wayne? Pumped on an easy 5? Are you getting old or something dude? :laf: If you're going to use a leash on just one arm or both get the detachable ones. That said I still think with practice and proper pre season training (weighted tool hangs, frenchies on tools, etc etc) no wrist leashes is the way to go assuming alpine/mixed is your overall goal. If you just want to climb pure ice and nothing more leashes might be worth a look. But that said as soon as you start mixing media (rock, snow, ice) the ability to place rock and ice gear quickly and efficiently as well as climb rock with your hands is easier with a leashless setup IMO. Umbicals can be frustrating at first but taking the time to learn how to manage them will ultimately be much less frustrating then a dropped tool on a multipitch or alpine route. I can personally vouch for this one One cautionary note about using a leash on just one arm is I can think of a handful of routes where gear placements (screws or rock gear) were only possible with a particular hand/side of my body. Having one hand leashes could easily screw you on some pitches. And the best way to fight muscle (arm) fatigue is good footwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rutl Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 my experience is by no means as extensive as John's or Wayne's but solid footwork, proper lock-off positions and not death-gripping your tools will sway the pump...that and just relaxing, breathing in those stressful sections. Training when not on the ice will help keep what stamina and strength you've gained I've top-roped climbing with a mountaineering axe and no leash. That sucked. But the pinky rests on the new leashless take quite the load off your need to grip. I will second Alex's notion to look at the last generation BD Vipers and add a Fang if they don't already have one. Best of both worlds and you can find them fairly inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Wayne? Pumped on an easy 5? Are you getting old or something dude? :laf: umm, yes, It should happen to you too.... I was placing all right and had to grip the tool with elbow bent. Hanging higher, off the bones/leash would have gone a long way on the steep placements. BTW..... Do the make an Android just for the new Cobras?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Wayne? Pumped on an easy 5? Are you getting old or something dude? :laf: umm, yes, It should happen to you too.... I was placing all right and had to grip the tool with elbow bent. Hanging higher, off the bones/leash would have gone a long way on the steep placements. BTW..... Do the make an Android just for the new Cobras?? Just heckling you because I'm jealous I'm not out there running around with the rest of you Yes they do make an android leash for the new cobras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Here's a how to on leashless alpine climbing: [video:vimeo]8444961 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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