Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Trash's jokes are all inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 His head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 They mutate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 You can tell because he keeps hitting the submit button too soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Somewhere, a deer's brain is missing it's prion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thus far no one has seen fit to discuss the merits of the article from the original poster. Basically the article is saying that we are making huge public health decisions with poor information on the effectiveness of flu vaccine. The reason for this is because of the unwillingness to conduct placebo-controlled clinical trials which are perceived as unethical. I imagine that you could get college students to volunteer to be inoculated with flu virus to test effectiveness if you paid them. Problem is you will end up knowing effectiveness in college students and not the demographic that needs protection- the frail elderly. A similar ethical dilema exists in cancer treatment. The way that works is that the control group, rather than receiving a placebo, receive "current standard of care", which is active drugs. The test group might get the test drug by itself or in combination with standard of care drugs. This wouldn't be possible in the case of a vaccine. All you folks who say you don't need flu shots are probably right. You're healthy. If you get it, you fight it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Somewhere, a deer's brain is missing it's prion. For those of you who do not have as much time to surf the internet as Tvash and I, "A prion (pronounced /ˈpriː.ɒn/ ( listen)[1]) is an infectious agent that is composed primarily of protein. To date, all such agents that have been discovered propagate by transmitting a mis-folded protein state; the protein itself does not self-replicate and the process is dependent on the presence of the polypeptide in the host organism.[2] The mis-folded form of the prion protein has been implicated in a number of diseases in a variety of mammals, including bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, also known as "mad cow disease") in cattle and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in humans. All known prion diseases affect the structure of the brain or other neural tissue, and all are currently untreatable and are always fatal.[3] In general usage, prion refers to the theoretical unit of infection. In scientific notation, PrPC refers to the endogenous form of prion protein (PrP), which is found in a multitude of tissues, while PrPSc refers to the misfolded form of PrP, that is responsible for the formation of amyloid plaques and neurodegeneration. Prions are hypothesized to infect and propagate by refolding abnormally into a structure which is able to convert normal molecules of the protein into the abnormally structured form. All known prions induce the formation of an amyloid fold, in which the protein polymerises into an aggregate consisting of tightly packed beta sheets. This altered structure is extremely stable and accumulates in infected tissue, causing tissue damage and cell death.[4] This stability means that prions are resistant to denaturation by chemical and physical agents, making disposal and containment of these particles difficult. Proteins showing prion-type behavior are also found in some fungi, which has been useful in helping to understand mammalian prions. Fungal prions, however, do not appear to cause disease in their hosts and may even confer an evolutionary advantage through a form of protein-based inheritance.[5] The word prion is a compound word derived from the initial letters of the words proteinaceous and infectious, with -on added by analogy to the word virion." I hope that clears THAT up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 you are all wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 All you folks who say you don't need flu shots are probably right. You're healthy. If you get it, you fight it off. While that may be true to a large degree, it fails at the social responsibility level in that, all to often, to have the flu is to spread the flu. So while most of us could fight off most flu strains or at least survive being infected, vaccines may help to decrease the effected population. "May" in that the vaccines that come out each year are a best guess on what strains will be most active in the coming year. Sometimes they hit it right and PREVENT a lot of suffering. Sometimes they don't and we all have to "fight it off" with the requisite puking out of guts, pains in the muscles, fevers, and loss of days working and playing. There is no silver bullet. But NOT getting vaccinated is like eating in a soup kitchen to save money (imo). Why not take the whole family right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 you are all wrong Except me. Bug has spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 While that may be true to a large degree, it fails at the social responsibility level in that, all to often, to have the flu is to spread the flu. So while most of us could fight off most flu strains or at least survive being infected, vaccines may help to decrease the effected population. "May" in that the vaccines that come out each year are a best guess on what strains will be most active in the coming year. Sometimes they hit it right and PREVENT a lot of suffering. Sometimes they don't and we all have to "fight it off" with the requisite puking out of guts, pains in the muscles, fevers, and loss of days working and playing. There is no silver bullet. But NOT getting vaccinated is like eating in a soup kitchen to save money (imo). Why not take the whole family right? it is evident from your well-researched opining that you enjoyed the article in the Atlantic immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 spongy brains! The lot of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Sorry. I didn't realize spray was now regulated to on-topic discussions. While the Atlantic article is interesting and vexing, it does not by itself constitute scientific fact. That could become the case if the scientific community would practice science and explore Jefferson's findings in detail. But it is also possible that Jefferson made some mistakes in his data gathering methodology. I am not qualified to comment on it either way. What I do know is that I am not going to throw all my eggs in one basket because you found one study that contradicts everyone else in the field. There are just too many variable at work here. So for now, I will go with what my good family doctor from the old school said, "Eat your vegetables, drink your milk, get lots of vitamin C, stick copious amounts of neosporin oinment on anything you can reach that isn't acting right, and get vaccinated. Oh, and stop jumping out of trees." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 It was a good article and all but the only way someone would enjoy it immensely was if they were getting a BJ while reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 that must be how the wonks can do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Somewhere, a deer's brain is missing it's prion. For those of you who do not have as much time to surf the internet as Tvash and I, "A prion (pronounced /ˈpriː.ɒn/ ( listen)[1]) is an infectious agent that is composed primarily of protein. To date, all such agents that have been discovered propagate by transmitting a mis-folded protein state; the protein itself does not self-replicate and the process is dependent on the presence of the polypeptide in the host organism.[2] The mis-folded form of the prion protein has been implicated in a number of diseases in a variety of mammals, including bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, also known as "mad cow disease") in cattle and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in humans. All known prion diseases affect the structure of the brain or other neural tissue, and all are currently untreatable and are always fatal.[3] In general usage, prion refers to the theoretical unit of infection. In scientific notation, PrPC refers to the endogenous form of prion protein (PrP), which is found in a multitude of tissues, while PrPSc refers to the misfolded form of PrP, that is responsible for the formation of amyloid plaques and neurodegeneration. Prions are hypothesized to infect and propagate by refolding abnormally into a structure which is able to convert normal molecules of the protein into the abnormally structured form. All known prions induce the formation of an amyloid fold, in which the protein polymerises into an aggregate consisting of tightly packed beta sheets. This altered structure is extremely stable and accumulates in infected tissue, causing tissue damage and cell death.[4] This stability means that prions are resistant to denaturation by chemical and physical agents, making disposal and containment of these particles difficult. Proteins showing prion-type behavior are also found in some fungi, which has been useful in helping to understand mammalian prions. Fungal prions, however, do not appear to cause disease in their hosts and may even confer an evolutionary advantage through a form of protein-based inheritance.[5] The word prion is a compound word derived from the initial letters of the words proteinaceous and infectious, with -on added by analogy to the word virion." I hope that clears THAT up. Um, I think everybody already knew that except you...and Kev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 You're not tracking well lately. Prions do not belong to deer. If anything, the deer belongs to the prion. Check your internet connection. That may be backwards and all turned in on itself too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 [video:youtube]A5NaN_U9RfY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 You're not tracking well lately. Prions do not belong to deer. Chronic Wasting Disease is such a tragedy when it occurs in humans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 we are all unique flowers. for example: just look at how special i am. just look at me. You, Porter, have a special place in my gallery: so that's what the inside of ur gallery looks like, and damn porter is that ur big ugly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 You're not tracking well lately. Prions do not belong to deer. Chronic Wasting Disease is such a tragedy when it occurs in humans.... Hey your internets is working again. Start tracking....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 hmmm...stuff to ponder...in light of this were small pox and polio vaccinations the real deal? Or did the little buggerz just die off? Its a good question, Rudy, why vaccination has been so effective for diseases like smallpox and polio, but not for the flu? Anyone know? Maybe b/c it mutates so quickly? Poliovirus and smallpox infect only humans and have no intermediate hosts, as is not the case with the flu that cross-infects birds, horses, pigs and humans as of today and then who knows. If there are no new victims to infect, viruses like polio and smallpox cannot longer survive in the environment because they are not capable of adapting to a different host. When coupled with their almost non-existing mutation potential, mass vaccination and containment were the major driving force in providing us with the life long immunity and complete eradication of the smallpox (nearly there for the polio). That is not going to happen with the Influenzavirus. Being an RNA virus, it has high mutation rate and can infect the same host over and over again because the specific antibodies produced following flu infection or vaccination ONLY prevent subsequent infection of the original non-mutated virus - one reason why flu vaccines sometimes fail. Second, RNA genome of the flu virus often recombinates with other flue types or even those from other species resulting in hybrid viruses. Again, the new flu strains appear before the adaptive immune response is formed and/or vaccines are made. FYI: The RNA retrovirus HIV (causes AIDS) has the highest mutation rates ever AND goes into the latent phase by hiding out in the resting T lymphocytes thereby completely failing an HIV vaccine as yet. now if u only knew something about climbing... i think u accidentally signed up on the wrong site... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 She may only be an aide/technician in real life, but here she gets to be a real dok-tor! Ain't the internet great? Kinda like Marylou with a certificate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YocumRidge Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 now if u only knew something about climbing... i think u accidentally signed up on the wrong site... This is precisely why pink I am on this forum so that I can get better at climbing. Oh well, I am only getting ready to climb NF Hood next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YocumRidge Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 She may only be an aide/technician in real life, but here she gets to be a real dok-tor! Ain't the internet great? Kinda like Marylou with a certificate... Are you a fake too then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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