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Jesus fucking crist. Just go replace with a bolt and nobody will know. Except the folks who climb this route and I promise all of them (exept JH) will be thanking god you replaced pins (OLD FUCKING SCHOOL) with new awesome bolts.

 

ALL the pins on FD should be replaced with bolts.

 

Another Quote from Kevbone :P

 

"As far as ethics: I think we can all agree you dont touch another persons route, right? "

 

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I believe that the A team is heading up today ...

 

 

tumblr_lm1s18wscw1qgqkw9o1_500.gif

 

.....to evaluate and either slam a new pin or re-put (I made that word up) the old one back in.

 

 

 

 

All you backsliders can finally relax with all of the internet wailing and the nashing of the teeth:-). :)

 

yg49.gif

 

 

 

"Rare in the history of climbing has so much drama been made by so few over so little"

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Pink, that was not directed at you. Kev was pullng another boner. Bill, got to let us have some fun!!!

 

WORD!!!

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happy to see any and all old beacon lines cleaned and the gear brought up to modern snuff :)

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Couple of questions for the locals.

 

When climbing Jill's Thrill there are three belays that can break the route up. Assuming one uses all of them, what crack is the final pitch of Jill's Thrill? Does it take the flaring crack on the right of the belay for pitch 3 or the thinner finger to hands crack on the right of the belay? What route is the other crack?

 

Secondly, there seems to be two pins on the lower Fear of Flying pitch but the topo shows four. The upper section has one and the topo shows two. Were those pins pulled or ???

 

 

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last pitch of jills is the flaring thing on the right side of p3 (off stoner ledge) - usually a good bit of blackberry right at the start to make it fun :)

 

the cool crack left of that anchor is crazy horse

 

like love, pins come and go and are trusted at your peril :)

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Couple of questions for the locals.

 

When climbing Jill's Thrill there are three belays that can break the route up. Assuming one uses all of them, what crack is the final pitch of Jill's Thrill? Does it take the flaring crack on the right of the belay for pitch 3 or the thinner finger to hands crack on the right of the belay? What route is the other crack?

 

Secondly, there seems to be two pins on the lower Fear of Flying pitch but the topo shows four. The upper section has one and the topo shows two. Were those pins pulled or ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I only remember there being three pins on Fear of Flying... When in doubt...ask Opdyke :) So is Mr. Gecko.. Micah?

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Secondly, there seems to be two pins on the lower Fear of Flying pitch but the topo shows four. The upper section has one and the topo shows two. Were those pins pulled or ???

 

The knifeblades were replaced with bugaboos or LAs and the bad small angles were in bomb gear placements and not replaced.

 

The two lower FoF knifeblades:

 

6299FoF2.JPG

 

6299FoF1.JPG

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1/9/2015 - day #1 - couldn't let a full week of january go by w/o putting in an appearance - thanks kevbone, absentee landlord-ye-be, for getting me on the kick years ago of noting what was worth NOT bitching about over the course of the beatard year

 

did 3 solo laps last january, but 1's plenty enough for me a year later - the classic approach through the lulls n' roars of the gorge - plenty windless at the lot though, barely w2 conditions, though still plenty chilly - took a dump n' renewed me year pass in 4 minutes, then galloped off for the main show - cold n' darkish but good enough and done in a saintly way, me pious n' piss skert in places, but nothing to really worry about

 

a long rotation home - holy shit i wish the whole year could be so balmy :)

 

1/21 - day 2 - VICTORY!!!

 

not that i ever need an excuse to get me some bacon, but today i was compelled to put in an appearance at the skamania court house - larry the tool (you know, the new one who was a lot like the old one?) saw fit to write me a 138$ ticket last november for getting back to the devil an hour after dusk, as apparently the current regime wants to say that's the same as bivying or doing a midnight ascent - don't know what the new feller was all butt hurt over, maybe it was just the shame of having to be bailed out of a bad spot last summer after his incompetence made itself plain before the very people he aspires to lord it over?

 

anyhow, i asked for my day in court and had a capital time today seeing justice in action - took a half day off and got good enough weather for a quick stop at beacon- gabbed w/ old man jeff n' coastie adam about the gubimint - they then were off to see what those rat bastards have been up to over on the what-have-you lately - i romped down to the base for a solo in street shoes n' shirt n' tie up the first half of the first pitch - then raced back up to the lot and hopped into the devil and bounded on in to stevenson in time to take my seat

 

the courthouse reminds me a bit of church - same sad old faces all around - same smell of worn wood and the same deep solemnity suffused through the assembly - the judge was a jovial looking chap at least

 

sat on the group W bench awhile reading my national geographic and grinning to hear all the cases of my fellows next to me who'd gotten the big dickie from the beacon man since thanksgiving - it was a mort of my fellow 'mericans, and they mostly got their fines reduced and a friendly reminder to Render on to Ceasar What Is..

 

then it was my turn to take the big oath and do my song and dance - i was delighted to see the Man With The Robe quickly warming to my argument - a decade of getting back to lot after dark with nary a ticket - the custom quite clear: pay yer 10 clams if yer bivying on the rock or doing a moon-light ascent, but never this nickel and dime "yer back 10 minutes after dusk" bullshit

 

i'm paraphrasing for the purpose of comedy i concede, but the Man in Black basically said repeatedly: "i get it, i get it, the bastards out there at beacon are little bitches, but i can't tell them what to do - all i can do is throw out their tickets, which is what i'm going to do" - SCORE! :)

 

and then the best line of all: "have you posted about this on cascade climbers? i hear that's a good place to discuss these issues" :lmao:

 

so anyhow that's how the ball bounced - with a healthy reaffirmation for yer friend and humble narrator as to the virtue of our montesquien machine of government - one hand wacks on the other, eh?

 

celebrated the greatest civil rights victory of our modern age by gulping down a pabst and sprinting up the trail in the dusk, taking a slight detour into the weeds after my hat got blown off my head at the top of uprising - then it was back to the big city and a union meeting

 

in closing, if there's anythign serious to discuss here, what think you to a nocturnal version of the annual 30$ park pass? i'd easily get 30$ of night climbing in each year, plus be protected against this penny-ante crap

 

1/25 - day 3 - a day to die for - the circle complete - beacon set to close up shop for a mighty long season but fate vouch-safed to chuck this plum in a poor fools lap before it could sling off into spring

 

'twas a week for settling old scores - my court-date a comely kick-off, it was time to finish the climb adam and i had started that ill-omened late autumn day - we'd bailed from 2 pitches up, having to leave a tangle of biners and webbing to make the 5 lbj-era bolts up there work - hate to let a year go by w/o climbing jensens, and lordy didn't the stars align to reclaim the gear and get lit like a lord in doing so

 

first it was me n' adam on the list - then it was me n' adam n' goeff - it grew then to the 3 of us n' bryan too, then finally even fucking mike was coming out of his homo-biking hermitage to have at it w/ o - a 5-spot for fortune n' fleeting greatness

 

started poorly enough - me n' mike sitting at the b.k. for a good bit waiting for the assembly of demi-gods to gaggle together - eventually bryan and goeff showed a half hour late but i didn't mind - heavy fog in camas but frequently giant flocks of geese would go raging by above, gaudy as ghosts, gallumping off north - we gave adam 3 minutes to arrive then called to discover he was still snoozing in bed - damn, my cheap oregon smokes were in danger (and shit, i never did give that boy his 5-spot! remind me when next we meet, hear?)

 

sunny on the south side but a bit of a breeze - quite the clown-fucking convention we had to contend with - eventually we got it settled - geoff lead p1 whle mike belays and bryan and i get to guzzle beer and recollect it as recreation

 

jensenspic2.jpg

geoff got his redemption for shitting between the sheets last month in a steel breeze - mike followed then bryan - adam was there by then, and goeff chucked down the other end of a 70 as bryan was climbing so i could send up another line and the li'l dawg - bryan cast off on p2 as i started jugging and i had a penthouse view of him slip-slidign away on the awful slippery lichenated stone - i had some gut-chuckles w/ the boys n' a butt too as we buttoned-up against the breeze, then bryan was there and i went on up to him to help out in getting An Anchor For a Modern Era

 

bryan was over his dream of repeating a free-ascent of the money pitch and suddenly i found myself delighted to get that pithy peach - adam was still on the ground, connected to us w/ a 70 - geoff came up on the new anchor as i launched into the incredible start that is jensen's 3rd pitch

 

just starting the 11a crack on a blind placement

10941004_10204835257215034_6860029615644690645_n.jpg

 

20150125_121009.jpg

time went by - jim and bill arrived below - lichen populated my eye-balls - the laughable # of 3s, 4s, n' 5s i had got whittled away and then i was there - bryan followed, panting in the odd hibernal-heat as he made the pillar-top - he rested and sorted as geoff followed then was off lickety-split, ending up aiding plenty of the pitch

 

mike jugged up in a jiffy n' got a spiffy pano

 

jensenspic1.jpg

 

need to put a decent anchor in the lower nothc of jensens as i was a wee bit unhappy in my pee-pee places to see what had been holding me from flying through the sky down to the sea - an ocean of ants, the fould reek of formic acid exploding on the scene - frogs creek n' croaking, the whole world in wonder at the folly of winter with her guard down, panties askew and napping :)

 

suddenly we were all at the railing w/ jim n' hogsheads of tourons trundlign up down and all around - butts n' beers n' bullshitting and a fine heady-brew of homo sapien comraderie - the parking lot in the dying lot - pbrs n' pleasant conversation as adam went down to fetch the what have yous, then we set our sights west and went back to being ordinary men :)

 

poor adam - he ripped 50 feet of poision oak cables out of lay lady lay and the vicinty w/ not even gloves on his hands - he'll be in intensive care till next christmas i fear :noway:

 

1/26 - day IV for the annum - 2nd corner lap of this crisp season too - a warm night of good vibes after yesterdays jensens gang-bang - peanut noodles n' kids games, tv on the couch and a soft slink off to slumber covered in cushions

 

monday off for grading but i'd binged and purged friday night to get that dispatched - a sound sleep-in after somnambulating upstairs this side of dawn - book reading in the bright fog outside my bedroom window - the simple life of simon peg sounded n' sorted out before i need to take the first dump of the day :)

 

bacon w/ the kids, math-book bound though they were - a bit of wine n' honey and off i was down the sacred highway - beacon not near so balmy as so soon ago - a filtered light came greyly through the high cloud murk, the airs light and limp and heavyish with dampness

 

a couple on the corner already but i breezed by at tree ledge - read an old translation of beowulf on the party ledge and nursed a beer, then up and out via the ridge - more beer n' book by the pin in the last bit of direct sun that could be brought to bare there - croc-shod i clamber up to the trail and the site of former students, their names not recollected till i was several switchbacks further down

 

the long binge home w/ a 3-buck hat pulled low down where my eyes glim - the sun's near set and i sweat not to see the last part of this annual campaign ably dispatched :)

 

1/29 - day 5 - wholly shiite muslims, 5 days of fine beacon climbing in the king-of-winter and 2 more days left in the month n' fine weather forecast for each'o'them too! - my 3rd solo lap of the year

 

beautiful balmy thursday - the sun bright through the window of my classroom trailer - had no thought of beacon but by noon the desire-burn was bright - an annual bit of adjudicating upon the appeals of the absent in the afternoon, then that dispensed with, a desperate rage down the road into the sudden howling winds of the gorge - where did that wicked wind come from? it was so sweet before - like another fall of man, the ledger long unbalanced, the measure made right with the meat thrown against the wall

 

two ladies rambling up the trail as i lounged down after a frenzy of dressing n' dandyning meself up decent for the big blow in the parking lot - 2 more fellows earning the Ascent of the Day on young warriors, deep in shadow and bounding up unabashedly despite it

 

the breathe of the lord upon me - only the penitent man will pass - my doom diverted for now, i made my way up the windy hill and rumbled on down soon thereafter, my soul done up and ready for glory to the heavenly tune of tom waits' "come on up to the house" :)

 

my quotidian quote n' a personal favorite, a t.j. classic: "calamity was our best physician"

 

1/30 - day VI (holy fawk, did i really just hear the nfl's throwing in the fucking towel on latin numerals?!? jesus fucking fuck fuck!)

 

a rare auold junuary, the right kind really - 1 more day of winter afore the winter avalanches in n' shuts the cliffs for the fornication of the falcons - mike's after 3 - beers and bullshit'n on the way in - breezy for sure, but not batshit-so

 

adam in the lot - we ambulate to the base in the big wind and Walk Around the Issues :)

 

who can't love this life, it passes so even as you piss away the dregs of yesterday?

 

beaconpano2.jpg

 

beaconpano3.jpg

 

closing day 2015 - 7th day out at beacon this year - foggy and chilly-chilly at home in the dawn, lately dusted off from the couch - the boys at the b.k. soon thereafter - into the gorge the wind gathers wicked force - cruising w/ cold fingers, we fumble on up the rest the corner ducking and dodging through the plaid-man

 

the rest of the day rightly desposed, beer drinking and fucking around on the sunny side where the wind ramped up beyond all expectations

 

and so the sun sets on the southside - we shall see it soon enough i wager :)

 

2/22 - Dia VIII - sunny sunday - predictions for Big Wind but it wasn't really there - a weekend w/ the brudder n' family big n' small on saturday, also biking by the shrieking birds w/ the chilluns - a sound sleep-in - bacon n' eggs n' toast n' streaming sun through the windows - my beer gut hated upon by my helpless forebears :)

 

the plan was for a solo of pitch 1 of THE WORLD FAMOUS STONE SOUP - binged n' purged on the big orbit in after noon - racked up in the baby breeze - big flakes down the past few months, the bric'a'brac of busted trees all around - scooted up to the pin n' remembered rather drunkenly you need a pretty-durn big cam just there that i didna have, so after a come-to-jeebus session of thrashing around on untrustworhty shite i rapped off that n' a bit of booty, cleaning as i went

 

allright, looks like i have a reason for living come monday afternoon :)

 

roamed around the base abit w/ friendly pbr's n' saw steve up high on the spring routes, n' fir-krissakes, how's that good-ole'boy always manage to be climbing w/ a girl? :P

 

2/23 - 9th bite of bacon for 2015 so far - darted out soon after the final school bell to rescue my bail gear on stone soup from yday - a much easier pitch when you have the proper gear :)

 

about 30 minutes from ground to the 1st anchor - the 2nd pin came out in my finger-tips but it never was all that necessary - suuuuure hope the same knifeblades on pitch 4 are in better shape this season - need to actually carry a hammer next time i ramble on up there...

 

3/4 - day 10 - took the day off to do some union agitating but it abated soon after noon - winged it out to beacon and got another solo lap on stone soup in despite my snot-filled senses wrecking my equilibriums :)

 

full spring in the fucking first week of march, the world flipped on it's frack'n vernal maidenhead :rawk:

 

Beware the Ides - day 11 - beware indeed for it was a day of woe stacked on woe - started amiably enough, a good sleep-in to the dull roar of rain outside the open windows (what a joy of summer to have come so soon) - met geoff at 9, gusts of raining galling the rain-wracked parking lot - our plan was siege tactics, always dry despite the worst the weather can offer

 

geoff got lap 1 and misfortune 1 of the day for me was some odd bit of grit creeping in my open eye and progressively offending me w/ every passing minute - within 2 hours i was almost blind - got my lap in and even moved onto the other unnamed wonder under the roof (starts on the headspace bolt but goes right thereafter) before the combination of continuous crying and sketchy hooking sent me home

 

geoff drove the red devil to camas at least, and by then the predicted wind had whipped up something fierce, him dodging downed trees n' sizzling power lines the whole way back, me keening n' cursing my old-skewl god's condemnation - my leg back to home was classic - one eyed, finger-pushing the offending orb into its socket to gain its pain-surrender, swerving out of the way of every wind-blown, coursing sprig of cedar, ignorant n' uncaring of the 3rd dimension - woe #2 on the arrival, the big breeze succeeding in blowing down 2 of my 4 backyard fences, to much horror to handle n' for certain the problem of the future - the rest of the day couch-bound n' crest-fallen, fresh-showered n' well sodden...

 

5/3 - day 12 - off my pace for the year - too busy doing other cool things - a trip to tower rock - union agitation on an increasingly grand scale - a week in red rocks and city of rocks

 

today was stone soup - went extremely smoothly - bryan did p2, which i still haven't led since hurting myself on it last year - i was sorta dreading p5, with all of its fixed funky knifeblades, but they all held, so i reckon it's all good?

 

anybody know what's going w/ the evergreens in the gorge? am i crazy or does damn near every pine near beacon show serious blight right now? tons of brown on most of the trees for miles - looks likely to burn like mad this summer if it continues.

 

5/9 - day 13 - way off my pace from last year

 

weeks on end it seems union bidness dominating my thoughts - so sad, prime weather for poaching

 

saturday at noon - the revenge rolls into a sun-soaked parking lot as i make parley w/ long-passed students

 

n side climbing - love all dem new routes - we do one n' enjoy life - a foolish rap back down - jim gib-jabbering soon therafter - a quick run up the alpine route and we top-route the shit 'round stone soup

 

the summer soon upon us - what fool sets this sorta shit aside? :)

 

6/11 - day 14 - seniors on the wing, graduation goes off tomorrow - an easy day of dispensing w/ the care-taker tasks before summer - practice walking w/ a pack of restless fools :)

 

out to beacon for the big what-have-you - pulled in for some soloing-aiding on the soup aforehand - salvaged me some russki steel on the first pin - nastia says she's american, but her 'biner color-scheme is still solidly russki :)

 

sudden politicking w/ suds out in godfirsaken stevenson - a good bit of the brethern assembled - lords know what will lay as a result, but let's not worry about that on the cusp of summer - a long orbit back, w/ a big semi-wreck sending my addled self of a disastrous detour

 

ah, the simple time of summer is soon :)

 

7/15 - day 15 - opening day 2015 - hangover at dawn - plans for a big trip to tower rock so a 6 a.m. ascent it was - can't remember a thing about it but i'm sure it was great :)

 

7/21 - day 16 - back after a long trip to tower rock, bill n' i nonetheless rallied the morning after to do a corner lap in the wondrous cool of the mid-morning - clouds and breeze - a pair of bros pleasant enough to let us pass at the base - goddamn i still haven't figured out a way to start p2 w/o fucking up my shins and scaring shit out of myself - hidden treats - a lengthy yack-yack at the ledge - then home to prepare for the arrival of the family after a month n' a half away...

 

bootied 2 phat steel biners off the base of p2 - might could make a present back of them if the feller who left them wants them n' understands it was either going to be me or the next party through to claim them as a prize

8/20 - day 17 - dod's w/ kenny, me rather rusty after a month of a whole lotta not climbing - practically a full division of armor heading west over the rail-head, a site i'd long wished to behold - christ, is summer so near deceased?

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6299FoF2.JPG

 

That second pin in the above picture is why I think it is stupid to keep replacing shitty pins with pins that will soon become shitty

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These two pins were the only ones on the entire South Face that were anywhere near in this state and a far higher percentage of the bolts replaced were that bad or almost that bad. And, by and large, it was the newer, best-looking bolts placed in the 90's which were the worst of the lot. Again, the pins way, way out-performed the bolts over time by a long shot.

 

The deal with the pins out there is:

* Small pins of any type suck and are basically not worth placing; if you can't place a medium or long pin don't bother in terms of fixed pro

 

* Angles of any size are worthless over time due to having so little surface area in contact with the rock, also don't bother (and almost all are in spots with good pro)

 

* Bugaboos are truck and hold up well over many decades and are to be preferred over knifeblades

 

* Lost Arrows are truck

 

* Soft spade Euro spades are surprisingly good, particularly when a thin column crack has and curves / bends in it which knifeblades and bugs won't snake around

 

After maintaining / replacing both bolts and pins, I'd personally favor a pin out there over a bolt every time in most cases because I can check and maintain a pin whereas there is no way to really check or know what's happening with a bolt 10, 15 or 20 years later.

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Except for the fact that checking a pin requires you to carry a hammer around all the time. Which is just so damn reasonable.

 

Personally I would love to see some actual real scientific data that says pins last longer than bolts and are safer.....

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Joe, when you say that the pins have out-lasted the bolts out there, exactly what type/era of bolt are we talking? Plated 3/8" 5-pieces from the 90's? Opdycke-vintage plated 3/8" studs? Did you ever see a stainless bolt that was in worse shape than a pin? Are you arguing against replacing certain questionable pins with modern stainless bolts because of the poor performance (per your observations) of the inferior bolts used in the past? Thanks for sharing what you have learned out there.

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Except for the fact that checking a pin requires you to carry a hammer around all the time. Which is just so damn reasonable.

 

Crikey dude, you just aren't getting it are you? And by the same token you'd have to carry a wrench and more to check a bolt. WTF? No you don't have to carry a hammer around all the time...

 

Let's try this once more for like the millionth frigging time:

 

FIXED PRO - BOLTS AND PINS - HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED OVER TIME.

 

That means someone (hint: BRCA), needs to check the fixed pro on some regular basis. Do all of it every five years, do a few routes every year, or fuck it because you're too damn busy clearcutting, terraforming, bolting aid lines, and retrobolting to be bothered and take your chances.

 

Personally I would love to see some actual real scientific data that says pins last longer than bolts and are safer.....

 

ACTUAL REAL SCIENTIFIC DATA only comes from someone (anyone) putting themselves out there and making observations. Observations take time and effort to go out and make them. And, check it out, that's exactly what I did from 2005-7, I checked every single anchor, bolt and pin on the South Face with the exception of some of the lines over the AoT and Riverside. I replaced 74 anchors - in which both bolts were spinners in 54 (73%) of them.

 

So, from ACTUAL REAL OBSERVATIONS (curious, do New Relic customers ask for 'scientific' data, or just the ordinary kind?), the result was that bad bolts, as a percentage of total bolts, were off the chart bad compared to bad or loose pins as a percentage of total pins. And it should be noted that lots of the pins were way older than most of the anchor bolts.

 

Joe, when you say that the pins have out-lasted the bolts out there, exactly what type/era of bolt are we talking? Plated 3/8" 5-pieces from the 90's? Opdycke-vintage plated 3/8" studs?

 

The best bolts out there are old 1/4" split-shanks. Don't know what the wonder alloy is they're made of, but one of them burned the teeth off two new Lennox sawzall blades that will cut bolts all day long like butter and it barely made a nick in it. Unfortunately all the hangers on those are complete shite. A couple of worst bolts were older studs, but most by far were eighties and nineties 3/8", five-pieces. Probably a third of those were badly placed and not perpendicular to rock face. Some had silicone sealant and stacks of washers behind the hanger to try tip it to compensate for the bad drilling angle. Some were in places such that water would tend accumulate in the hole. And hey, I like to party and climb as much as the next person, but it's probably best to refrain from picking up a drill when you're too stoned and/or drunk to drill perpendicular to the rock.

 

Are you arguing against replacing certain questionable pins with modern stainless bolts because of the poor performance (per your observations) of the inferior bolts used in the past? Thanks for sharing what you have learned out there.

 

You can paint it as a problem better bolts (stainless) will solve and you may be right (Bill would be the one to consult on that), but I have my doubts. I'd have to make observations over time of well-placed 304 / 316 bolts by pulling a couple at 4/8/12/16 year intervals to really say. I've climbed around Asia and the track record there isn't so fabulous. Sure, we're not on the coast, but it is wet and it's ocean air that drives the kite/windsurfing in the Gorge. Again, I have my doubts about anything but titanium glue-ins. And here's a recent article from the BMC titled: " Should stainless steel bolts become a thing of the past? "

 

Personally, if I were to replace or place any bolts going forward it would be with titanium glue-ins. Second to that I'd probably go with SS glue-ins. Why glue-ins? Because the glue helps keep the steel from corroding inside the hole if you're talking SS. BUT, glue-ins are super finicky relative to knowing what you're doing and being sure you do every aspect of the job well or don't bother - it's definitely not a Wayne and Garth sort of deal. Of the SS glue-ins I like these folks products: Bolt Products and there's also a ton of good info there as well.

 

For me the deal with bolts out there is, short of titanium glue-ins, eventually the bolts are going to go bad and it's hard if not impossible to tell when and if that has happened. The pins can be checked over time and that is a feature I do like about them. I view it similar to choosing a cam or a nut for a placement - I'm going with a nut every frigging single time if there's a good spot for one, if not then a cam. Out at Beacon if there's a good pin placement for a medium / large LA or Bug I'm going with that every time, if not then a bolt.

 

But again, all of this - just like learning and doing the monitoring or cleaning South Face column routes - takes time and effort. Over three years I spent hundreds of hours doing all three, over eight years way, way over a thousand. It also takes assembling a decent kit for doing the fixed pro work and extended cleaning sessions if you want to do them with the least amount of pain. Talk and [honest] intentions are cheap; spending the cash kitting up and for gas and actually logging the hours doing any of the three is a pain in the ass and takes time away from actual climbing. But you're either doing it or not, and if you're not, then you're just blowing it out your ass and what the fuck is the point of a BRCA or a committee beyond howling at the moon and wailing over the closure?

 

[ P.S. All of this could easily have been in place for a decade now if the laser focus on the closure, fuck-the-man, and bold make-believe fantasy / slander hadn't been the dominant theme and order of the day. ]

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