Vapor Barriers

[mzvarner]

What are peoples ideas on vapor barriers/ neoprene. Im looking into a way to keep my boots dry, obviously, my feet are like water fountains. pros, cons, and links to good brands.

[EastCoastBastard]

I've used plastic bread bags with pretty good success - they keep my boots dry and my feet wet, but not too wet. I always put a pair of liner socks directly on my feet, then the vapor barriers, then thick socks. I only do it to increase warmth a little bit and that might only be a few days a year to avoid pulling out the plastics.

[DPS]

I have a pair of Black Diamond vapor barriers that I wear with my plastic boots. It works very well, only my liner socks get wet. I think Integral Designs also makes vapor barrier socks.

[letsroll]

http://www.rbhdesigns.com/category/170&cfid=3135386&cftoken=66231775/footwear.htm

 

have not used them, but when I was looking. Thinking about making a back only barrier vest.

[Dane]

Don't see anyone mentioning it...

 

If you use a vbl on your feet I'd also highly suggest using a really strong antiperspirant like Mitchums rubbed on your feet.

 

I'd try just the antiperspirant first before using a vbl.

Cayenne pepper is another option worth trying in a controlled test environment. Capsaicin (cayenne pepper )is a chemical compound that stimulates the chemoreceptor nerve endings in the skin.

 

VBL is an OK system for short term day/over night trips. But unless you are going some place really cold and are really careful it is a good way to get immersion/trench foot if you are using them long term. Changing liner sox and getting your feet warm and dried out every night becomes critical in long term use. VBL bags are always better than neopreme because neopreme swells as you gain height and is a good way to cut off circulation.

 

As others have already mentioned, synthetic liner sox, then VBL, then what ever you are using for insulation. Having your feet damp all day is an acquired taste as is the slick vbl in your boot. But after the moisture content reaches a certain point in the VBL your feet should stop sweating.

[selkirk]

You can also by gore-tex socks. I would imagine they have similar benefits to a VBL but may keep your feet a bit dryer?

Every time I've tried them I sweat so bad it doesn't help, but I also haven't used them in ice climbing temps.

 

I'll second the anti-persperant on your feet though

[mzvarner]

my main thing is i sweat a lot and im using a single boot, so i want to make sure its dry and not going to freezr solid overnight. so what are some ways to deal with that. can i just shove a nalgene with hot water in it?

[DonnieK]

my main thing is i sweat a lot and im using a single boot, so i want to make sure its dry and not going to freezr solid overnight. so what are some ways to deal with that. can i just shove a nalgene with hot water in it?

 

That will work in cold, dry environments (i've used that successfully in Minnesota winters), but it takes a long time even then and probably wouldn't work here in the NW. I'd probably go with VB sock before I relied on this.

 

btw, they can correct excessive sweating with surgery....

[Dane]

This may sound dumb but from my own experience I would be suspect of your boot/gaiter combo if your boots are getting so wet you are worried about them freezing.

 

Most modern boots get wet from moisture getting into them not your feet sweating. That means it is snow or water coming in from the top. Kinda suprised myself at how little resistance to moisture some of the modern fabric boots really are. Same reason they invented Super Gaitors.

 

Best bet is a better boot...something lined with goretex or another liner keeping moisture out. But if you are out and frozen boots are a worry you sleep with them in your bag. Only way to avoid that is sleeping with just the innners in the bag from your dbl boots. Note I said in the bag not on your feet in the bag.

[mzvarner]

thanks dane. i have used the asolo afs and they are a double. they only times i have used them are on rather dry climbs where they was no snow or ice to get down inside them. thats what makes me think its my feet sweating. I wonder if it might be because im wearing to much on my feat making them over heat.

 

im also looking into the batura's right now any advice on them, or anything similar. it seems that my feet fit well with La Sportiva so im trying to stay in that family.

[ScaredSilly]

I have been using neoprene socks from these folks: http://www.gator-sports.com in combination with dachstein socks. This system works quite well but it should not be used unless the temps are below freezing. Further, you must dry you feet at the end of each day to avoid trench foot or other nasty fungal problems. Typically, once in the tent I turn the socks inside out and let them dry a bit. They go in my bag for the night. Finally, after a couple of days the socks will sink.

 

 

[Dane]

Everyone's feet sweat. They seemed to be designed that way Trick is to limit their sweating. A VBL will do that by trapping the moisture and once the humitiy/moisture level is high enough inside the VBL your feet are suppose to stop sweating.

 

Scared Silly called it right on...gotta really manage your feet and system if you use a vbl. I had tried thicker neopreme sox. I'd bet the really thin ones would work better and not expand as much.

 

I don't have a big issue with foot sweat but mine do sweat as well. FWIW the Batura is the only Sportive winter boot I have problems with in cold weather because you can't dry them out easily over night. If I am going to use a single boot the Nepal Evo gets used more often climbing in Alberta in winter. Combo of lace system and goretex makes them every bit an equaly imo to the Batura for warmth. I use the Batura here in the Cascades fro winter stuff.

 

If it is a big issue...moisture in your boots... I'd be looking at lwt dbl boots. Not that any of them are really light weight. Sortiva Baruntse seems pretty good.

 

Many of the more modern boots and most of the newest dbl boots are VBL inners in one manner or another. I ended up using Intuition inners in my Spantics which are foam and can't asorb moisture. The Baruntse liners are similar but seem to breath.

With those combos I use two pair of liner sox to cut the friction and no added insulation sox. Works well for me.

 

Batura and Nepal Evo I use a medium wool boot sox and a liner.

If it is really cold I try to use the antiperspirant if I remember it. Helps keep the boot dry. Haven't used a VBL in either becausethe VBL (Patagonia or BD) I have seem slick. Used them other dbl boots though with good success.

 

Couple of morning applications during a week of climbing usually takes care of it.

[mzvarner]

Thanks again

[Lukic]

The RBH vbl socks in the link above are pretty good. No slick, sliding around but they do have a little extra bulk around the ankle but I haven't found that to be a problem. The biggest drawback is that you have to order them online since I don't know of any place you can actually try them on. I went by their sizing guide and have been happy with the fit but still wonder if I could have got one size smaller for a little more snugness.

 

Also, here is a link for 40 below that shows a vbl vest that letsroll was thinking of:

http://www.40below.com/product_detail_public.php?ProductID=310

[letsroll]

Yes that is the idea but the 40below is way too warm for around here. I was thinking of using the RBH material on the back and some other material on the front to make a vest that is next to skin with no insulation.

 

I found mesh fabric like you find on the inside of swim shorts but that might have too much stretch.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2009 by letsroll

[DPS]

Mark Twight wrote in one of his books that his partner created a vbl vest by cutting the arms off of an old wind shirt and putting three coats of scotch guard water proofing agent on the back.

[letsroll]

The previouse version of mine was that I sewn Sili-nylon (sp?)to the back of a long sleeved shirt. It worked perfect till it started to stink too much and I had to wash it. The sili developed holes.

 

THinking the RBH stuff would work good cause you will have nothing under it and you can wash/dry it easier if it is a single layer. I have not made it yet but it is an idea.

[tomtom]

Golite made a vest a few years back called the Golite Vapor Vest, which had a sil-nylon back and a breathable nylon front. Simple and light. They occasionally appear on ebay.

[johndavidjr]

Wild Things Inc. back in mid-1980s advertised their wind shirt as a "Convection Barrier Liner" or CBL, and suggested wearing it underneath one's outer layer.

 

I wore it as such quite a lot. Worked good and I continue to use similar, $105, wildly over-priced wind shirt from Wild Things in same manner. Wasn't waterproof nor functioning as a VBL I don't imagine, maybe, dunno, except when I got overheated.

 

Definitely added good warmth but not at all sure this wasn't due merely to wind-breaker function. Nice how other layers slipped on the nylon.

 

VBLs on feet are definitely great. I've used them a fair bit to extend 3-season-type footwear to very limited subarctic type use in some remarkably cold conditions. Never owned serious winter boots.

 

I use neoprene socks with sandals for fishing, but after using them once in boots, I never really figured out the right system with regard to other socks given my summer-sized boots.

 

Perhaps Wal-Mart offers plastic bags or something else relevant, or not.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11015263&findingMethod=rr#ProductDetail