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BillA

Is Sponsorship a Sin?

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Rock and Ice, Climbing, and the Alpinist are cool mags. The establishment and growth of modern climbing communities is largely due to advertisement.

 

Seriously? Rock and Ice and climbing are crap. As far as advertising creating climbing communities, that makes no sense. The internet, for better or worse (probably worse), has much more to do with modern climbing communities than anything else.

 

You don't think that the rise of, and subsequent advertising of companies like REI, OR, Black Diamond, Mont Bell, The North Face, Prana, just to name a few....or climbing gyms.....have influenced non-climbers to become part of the community? I think that there is a great deal more inlfuence there than you realize, and it makes perfect sense.

 

The internet is a place for people who already climb to come talk to other people who climb, but most of it isn't constructive to climbing...like what we're doing right now.

 

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....since none of the climbers on here read it or subscribe...

 

cough* cough* (shyly raises hand and braces for personal attacks)....I read it! My subscription to r and I has ran out and I was going to renue cause the last 3 times I went climbing and had a full car, dudes in the back loved reading the old issues stuck behind my seat and their Ouuuus and Ahhhhs reminded me how damn good it is in the wider format.

 

PS, I love the pictures Joe, don't stop or even slow down!!! The stories, however, CAN (but aren't necessarily and often are not) examples of what is being discussed here.

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Rock and Ice, Climbing, and the Alpinist are cool mags. The establishment and growth of modern climbing communities is largely due to advertisement. Climbing is a personal adventure of body and mind but as a culture, business motivation has had a significant impact.

 

I wouldn't change the culture or anyones community even if I could. I'm happy that there is so much development and so many people to share to love of climbing with.....and sponsorship is a part of that.

Brrr....humbug. Advertising does not "establish" communities. Advertising promotes awareness of climbing. Climbing gyms then act as the economic engines allowing folks to act on that awareness and sustain a relatively steady-state annual tidal flow of new bodies. Some of those new 'climbers' join or form 'communities', both real and virtual. Me? Being totally misanthropic, I'd be all for about an 85% overnight slash in the demographic, but that is never going to happen so long as the gyms and drills are powering the whole affair.

 

Yes it does. You said it doesn't help to establish communities but then you go onto explain how it does help to establish communties. By promoting awareness of climbing there is an "annual tidal flow of bodies", thus communities are created or grow....and advertising is a big part of that.

 

All advertising does is get people to climb and buy climbing gear or clothes. The personal relationships between the people within climbing are not created by advertsing. They are created by emotion and passion, usually of the positive kind, I've found.

 

 

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I love the climbing mags. They bring me up to date on the latest gear, routes, happenings, cool stuff. For instance, this months Climbing features the Index Town walls and a blurb on the history of it. It talks about how Green Dragon has been free climbed by Justin Sjong. Also shows a pic of a guy named Jens pulling down hard on the 4and 5th pitches freeing it. Is this the same Jens who posted here? If so, Jens you burly dude, did you free the thing? I can't imagine free climbing that, climbing 5.12 over micro brassies? Did Justin do it ground up or did he TR some sections first? Doesn't seem like the kind of thing you could on-site. Son of a ....also, Tommy C. and Chris S. make closer to 100k a year then 20k now, the times they have a changed. More power to them.

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....since none of the climbers on here read it or subscribe...

 

cough* cough* (shyly raises hand and braces for personal attacks)....I read it! My subscription to r and I has ran out and I was going to renue cause the last 3 times I went climbing and had a full car, dudes in the back loved reading the old issues stuck behind my seat and their Ouuuus and Ahhhhs reminded me how damn good it is in the wider format.

 

PS, I love the pictures Joe, don't stop or even slow down!!! The stories, however, CAN (but aren't necessarily and often are not) examples of what is being discussed here.

 

 

Thanks for the vote Billcoe....I don't plan on stopping...unless a bear steals my gear...

Edited by Joe_Poulton

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Just picked up Alpinist 28 because I'm heading down to Red Rocks next weekend (on my own dime....)and there happened to be a spread about the area in the issue. It was written by Joanne Urioste...pretty frickin' relative material. And there happened to be a great compelation of Bachar stories written by his friends and contemporaries.

My point? I call bullshit on anyone that loves the sport and claims not to read the literature.

 

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Yes it does. You said it doesn't help to establish communities but then you go onto explain how it does help to establish communties. By promoting awareness of climbing there is an "annual tidal flow of bodies", thus communities are created or grow....and advertising is a big part of that.

 

Again, advertising is about awareness - people take it from there. Advertising, by mainstreaming climbing into suburban pop culture and imagery, just insures that boatloads of people whom would otherwise stick with motocross, dogging, off-roading, sport bars, cross-dressing, RC models, and clogging will unfortunately be heading to the nearest plastic shack to give climbing a go.

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Sure, I agree. Like I just said, the relationships built within the community aren't forged by advertisement.

 

I think we should go for a %5 demographic cut overnight, just getting rid of the crusty, deluded, elitist-misanthropic types.

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I think we should go for a %5 demographic cut overnight, just getting rid of the crusty, deluded, elitist-misanthropic types.

 

They are the core of the attraction to "climbing"

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thats how i got into this climbing business. but i object to being calling deluded. i'm only semi-deluded.

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but i object to being calling deluded. i'm only semi-deluded.

 

take it from me - that's a sure sign you've moved well past delusional and are straight on the way to Munchausen land

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Thanks for the vote Billcoe....I don't plan on stopping...unless a bear steals my gear...

 

According to Disney, bears only know point and shoot, so you're safe for now till they figure out f stops, exposure and stuff. Of course, Disney has lied about some of their other characters too, so that could be off base. Snow White outted sleeping with the dwarves

__________________________________________________________________

 

I think we should go for a %5 demographic cut overnight, just getting rid of the crusty, deluded, elitist-misanthropic types.

 

LOL!

..

..

:confused:

..

..

...hey wait, that's me too. :(

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A week late, but here's my take on the whole thing.

 

Sinful Sponsorship? Seriously... Silly

 

 

  • Semple rails against "undeserved" self promotion, but never defines his terms. We all share about our climbing experiences somehow, but one person's version of "This is Rad" is to tell their wife and dog Rex, then go to bed. Another person might write an online trip report on a public forum, post photos on their blog, submit their account of the climb to Alpinist or Climbing magazine, and send a report to the American Alpine Journal. In any of these cases, nobody has to read or be exposed to the information/pictures/evidence of the "rad" accomplishment without specifically choosing to do so. To say that posting on one's blog, is "fine" but deride posting the same report to a wider audience via Hot Flashes draws an arbitrary line of dubious significance. Either you tell nobody, or you tell people who choose to hear about it. And if you are complaining about published climbing stories (online or in print), then submit your own or stop reading them. I hate Cat Fancy Magazine. Absolutely can't stand it. Guess what I reach for on the magazine rack? Not Cat Fancy. Problem Solved.

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my grandma will be disappointed to hear this Blake

 

cat_fancy_jan08.jpg

 

but then she doesn't usually keep up with Hot Flashes. different strokes, different folks.

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I've heard from an industry insider that Chris Sharma makes about 20K a year max. and everyone else makes less. Many spnsored atheletes get a jacket patch, free shoes or ice tools.

 

But a picture of Sharma costs $20K? I'd say your industry insider was off by a significant digit. But he's the outlier...

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Let's just say pro climbers make a bunch less than other pro sports athletes. And it is one of the rare sports where the experts are accessible. I remember standing next to Brittany Griffith at Smith talking about preferences for gin and tonic and next to Bachar at Owens talking about soloing. Whether they make money on climbing or not the community is close. Try approaching Tiger or Alex Rodriguez or Kobe Bryant. Good luck.

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just wait till Nike comes to its senses and realizes how hugely profitable this whole climbing business is. then Colin will be hanging around with A-Rod and Tiger, palling it up on million dollar yachts.

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but what if your sponsorship only paid you to travel around the world and climb year round? that would suck! i'm imagining that sponsored climbers are making WAY more than that, because its not like another sucker is waiting in the wings. they probaby have great medical and dental coverage though.

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