Julian Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 So I'm looking to upgrade from my basic glacier walking crampons to something more technical, and REI currently has both the Cyborg and Sabretooth crampons from Black Diamond on sale. I'm wondering what people think about these models as far as an all-around crampon that can be used for both mountaineering and more technical mixed/alpine ice. Are the Cyborgs too technical for all-around use and purely for water-ice and hard mixed climbing, or would they be good (if not optimal) for that sort of climbing with the bonus of being there if I move into harder technical stuff later? Can the Sabretooths handle steep alpine ice such as the North Ridge of Baker, the headwalls on Hood, etc.? Any advice, past experience, or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 sabertooths would be a good crampon for n ridge baker and hood, better than a "waterice" crampon IMO. Do yourself a favor and get a summer crampon (like the sabertooths) and then get a waterfall ice crampon if you like ice climbing after trying it. Hardman will say you can climb ice in sabertooths but it is more fun with the right gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyang Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Incidentally, I suspect that the cyborg & sabretooth crampons are on sale at REI (and other places) because they are last season's model, made of chromoly (what most steel crampons are made of). The newest models are made of stainless steel. It would also appear that BD has changed their anti-balling plates again .. wonder how long they will supply replacements for the older models ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rutl Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 sabretooths would get you up baker's north ridge or similar routes fine...just came of the north ridge in G12's which dont have a whole bundle of difference and they performed top notch...prob with the cyborgs for such routes: heavier, dont "hike" as well and the vert points can shear in the softer stuff...excellent water ice and mixed 'pons however...think Ouray you could use them for alpine/glacier routes...they would climb that pitch or two of steep ice like nobodys biz but be less effecient for the other 98% of the route what current crampons do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rutl Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 and yes...they are on sale because they are the chromoly...i think i read you can shave up to 8oz per pair with the new stainless models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 new SS crampons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielHarro Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Cyborg Chromoly = 2 lb 9 oz Cyborg Stainless Steel =2 lb 7.5 oz Sabertooth Chromoly = 2 lb 5 oz Sabertooth Stainless = 2 lb 2 oz Save your money......buy chromoly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rutl Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Cyborg Chromoly = 2 lb 9 oz Cyborg Stainless Steel =2 lb 7.5 oz Sabertooth Chromoly = 2 lb 5 oz Sabertooth Stainless = 2 lb 2 oz Save your money......buy chromoly.... seriously? a local gear shop had a deal posted promoting the new SS saying "up to 8oz lighter per pair"...liars!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponderosa Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 you'll gain the extra ounce once you've sharpened them a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peak13 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 ... has anyone used the BD Seracs? They are only $10 cheaper than the Sabretooths, but thinking about picking up the semi-auto clips.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastBastard Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I've got both the cyborgs (the old orange ones) and the latest sabertooths. I use the cyborgs almost exclusively for steep ice/mixed anf use the sabertooths for everything else. The sabertooths are great all-around crampons - the original poster will probably be very happy with them until he gets into hard ice climbing. If Will Gadd can climb WI6 with them (sabertooths) they have to be pretty decent. never used the seracs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 SS Seracs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_joe Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 where's that second photo taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevino Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I used to have the sabretooths. They're alright, no comparison for climbing alpine ice or water ice. Vertical front points really excel on those grounds. What to do you ask...? its all about the sarkens Edited August 6, 2009 by kevino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainwreck Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 the sabretooth is the only crampon you'll ever need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 another point of view on SS vs ChroMo SS vs Chromo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 When guys like Twight, House and Gadd tell you in writing that horizontal front points are the best for use on pure ice and all around alpine terrain you could do worse for experienced advice. Very few things and places where a vertical front point is any advantage even less where it is a huge advantage. Stainless? Well, lets just be kind and say, "that we aren't looking at a technical advantage over chromoly". The Grivel link above covers it fairly well. From that link. "In all high strength steels, including both chromolly and stainless steels, toughness diminishes as the temperatures falls. So both steels behave in the same way." Well sorta......I have been involved in a business that has used stainless for years to replicate chromoly parts. And in fact at even the best duplication and at simialr RC hardness stainess doesn't "behave" like chromoly. For one it dulls faster. 90 degree corner or knife edge..it dulls faster. It is how ever slightly "stickier". One is a good thing the other not a good thing. from another thread... "BTW stainless steel rusts just like chromoly...it is just slower and doesn't show as easily. So take note that the newest stainless steel stuff still needs some attention and care. Stainless steel is also softer...better for mixed climbing, maybe a bit, but stainless will require more sharpening. So it will not last as long as a chromoly crampon." Rust doesn't wear out crampomns...using and then resharpening them does. Weight? Chromoly and stainless are going to weigh the same. A new design might well weigh less but it IS NOT the steel making the differenece. Even thought it is info from a Grivel web site (obvious BD competitor world wide) the interview with Prof. Emilio Ramous is very informative and matches my own experience. Important points on stainless stell IMO from that interview. "most stainless steels, created and used to solve corrosion problems and not material strength, have totally inadequate characteristics to be used in the manufacturing of tools like crampons. In particular, ferritic and austenitic stainless steels,the most resistant to corrosion, are soft materials and, at least the austenitics, very tough but easily deformable and therefore almost useless for this type of tools.The martensitics on the other hand could be suitable from a rigidity and toughness point of view even though there are steels with better mechanical characteristics. But the martensitics have an inferior resistance to corrosion and rust formation than the other stainless steels, so much so that some technical norms don’t even consider them to be stainless steels but only corrosion resistant steels. Basically martensitic stainless steels have a tendency to rust thereby lacking both the mechanical and aesthetic advantages." "It is claimed that stainless steels maintain a better and sharper edge for longer than chromolly steel – is this true? No, the ability to “maintain an edge” depends mainly on the hardness but this must be weighed up alongside the toughness, the resistance to fractures, which remains the most important feature. With a similar toughness chromolly steel is harder and therefore better preserves a sharper edge than the martensitic steel." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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