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Sport vs Trad


Raindawg
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Any time you want to hook up for some trad, PM me.

 

That doesn't sound like it would be very fun.

If what I've experienced from you here is any indication, I don't think we'd get along at all.

(Are you that desperate for climbing buddies??? I'm not.)

Maybe you'd have a better time with Choada Boy, Kimmo and maybe even Ivan and you can all have a gas-bag competition.

gasbag.gif

 

Cool. Continue to talk shit and pretend you know me. Real life is harder to deal with, I suppose.

 

FYI: I'd climb with Ivan but he frightens me.

 

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in the era of the giants when you bestrode the earth with your seven league boots and forearms like popeye. them were the days, i tell ye. climbers today got no balls and is weak as kittens. bolts sap a man's strength, make him into a womanish creature and a pitiable sight. the whole world should just give up climbing and line up to watch the mighty JosephH and the indomitable Raindawg talk us to death with their endless gobbledy-gook and senile confabulations...

 

I have no interest in anyone watching about my climbing, hell, I don't even care about the climbing I've done, only the climbing I hope to do. And I don't want the 'whole world' to give up climbing - I'd be completely happy if just the 85% that are wholly dependent on bolts did. The annual number of bolts needed to keep feeding them new lines is pretty ridiculous. Still haven't heard anyone venture a guess of how many new bolts go in each year in WA, the NW, and in the US as a whole.

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No.

You have to read the thread or you just look stupid.

Or in your case, be yourself.

 

Wow, this "discussion" on bolting, sports climbing and ethics is getting better and better. I'm glad I participated.

 

Fling poo.

Eat poo.

Its Biblical.

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No doubt, I've seen them nailed on the wall at Ozone.

not that kev needs defenders, but have you done his "methrage" route out there joe? an interesting trad counterpoint to the bolts...

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I am not responsible for your assumptions.

And why do you and 5K keep posting in tandem?

Are you gay or just friends?

 

no, but you're responsible for looking like an idiot.

 

btw, excellent humor with the gay stuff there, guy. top shelf material!

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Dan's Dreadful Direct and Cunning Stunt for example.

 

hmmmm i'm not sure you'd get a lot of disagreement with those, would you?

Were you even climbing during the Dreadful Dan's conflict or were you still peeing in your trainers?

 

 

 

...i don't think we in washington have areas as sensitive as say joshua tree, where overbolting creates an eye-sore in a really special place. our crags are pretty isolated and generally pretty chossy and only visited by climbers (ok sure leavenworth is possibly an exception, but i don't notice chalk and bolts when driving through, unlike j tree).

"Bolting restraint is appropriate as long as it's not in my backyard."

 

 

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I am not responsible for your assumptions.

And why do you and 5K keep posting in tandem?

Are you gay or just friends?

 

no, but you're responsible for looking like an idiot.

 

btw, excellent humor with the gay stuff there, guy. top shelf material!

You seem upset.

I find it curious when assholes spew a bunch of shit all over and then act offended when some one confronts them with the same bullshit.

Did you flunk kindergarten?

They covered it there.

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Were you even climbing during the Dreadful Dan's conflict or were you still peeing in your trainers?

 

does it matter?

 

 

"Bolting restraint is appropriate as long as it's not in my backyard."

 

so tell me what area here, that is bolted, compares in your eyes to the grandeur that is j tree, and secondly, what area here is visually impacted even nearly as much as j tree? (white chalk on brown rock, shiny bolts contrasting heavily with brown rock....) i don't know, i just don't see it, but maybe you have input.

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You seem upset.

I find it curious when assholes spew a bunch of shit all over and then act offended when some one confronts them with the same bullshit.

Did you flunk kindergarten?

They covered it there.

 

heh, try the gay stuff, and now move to the kindergarten stuff! you're out-doing yourself.

 

actually, i'm not upset at all; i thought they covered "projection" (a psychological term!) in what, some class you took, or maybe those yoga classes you take? talk to your leader about it.

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I post under my real name; first climb was middle sister (central oregon) @ 14. First rock climb was a top rope at Skinner's Butte in Eugene with some guys from the gear shop I somehow lied my way into employment with @ 15. I turned 30 last December.

 

I've clipped 1000s of bolts since I started climbing... mostly at crags. I cant think of any bolts in WA/OR I’ve clipped that were in the mountains but I have clipped a few in Idaho that were on mountain routes. Their presence didn’t bother me and if they weren’t there I don’t know if I would have finished the route. I don’t know how they were placed and given that it was maybe one or two per route any ways it didn’t bother me.

 

I've place a number of top rope bolts locally (around Portland); I own a power drill that I purchased years ago when I had more disposable income (i.e. was single); it mostly collects dust these days. Never placed a bolt in the mountains. I carried a drill into gunsight 2 times (the long way) with the intent of replacing the bolt on Jim's route but both times was shut down by weather. When I finally managed to climb the route I never saw the bolt but still managed to top out.

 

I dont have a problem with bolts at crags as long as it is done responsible... dont bolt cracks, dont squeeze routes in next to each other and you should never have bolts so close together that one could potentially z clip.

 

That said sport climbing is a fundamental part of how I train for alpine climbing (the type of climbing that interests me the most). Yes one can still be an amazing alpine climber without clipping bolts ever but it takes a lot more time… something I don’t have much of. So I clip bolts… but I also trad climb, solo easy routes, dry tool choss, “ice climb” trees and lift weights occasionally :laf: It’s what works for me given how much time I have to devote to climbing. Bottom line: bolts have helped make me be a better than the climber I would be if I never ever clipped them.

 

My biggest concern WRT to bolts is bolts in the mountains. If it was up to me I’d like to see them minimized. I’m okay with bolts protecting something that would make it X rated without but only as a last resort. Bolted mountain routes I hope to do sometime soon include Salish Peak and Infinite Bliss; the first one because it looks rad (I’ve walked under it) and the second because climbers I respect and value their opinion told me it was fun… the exact reason I climb! For fun!

 

That’s where I stand. I challenge each of you to do the same.

 

PS: and I think we as PNW climbers have much much bigger things to worry about than bolts

 

"Hi, the name's John, and I'm a hot-shit climber when Dave Burdick is dragging me up a helichopper-accessed rock in Alaska. You wanna know what I think? I'll betcha do, since I'm a celebrity. Well, sport climbing made me a stud and it will work for you too. In fact, there's no other way to get strong, so we need lots of bolts my friends. But I don't like 'em in the mountains unless I happen to be mixed climbin' a modern despo." :)

 

 

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