ivan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 i'm confused - what can be more classically american than hating the goddamn godless red chinese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponderosa Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Â You omit the era/practice of nailing the hell out of cracks with the resultant scarring - leaving a substantial "trace" in the scarred lines. That practice altered routes, visual appearance, and the rock itself, comparatively, as much as anything (including bolted lines) that came after the '70's decade revelation/revolution of "clean climbing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 ...all of which points up the absurdity of the "leave no trace ethic" in the first place. if you really want to leave no trace, then you'll just stay at home. i don't want to stay at home, so that means i've decided that i'm going to leave a trace. humans alter their environment, that's what they do (this much should be obvious, especially to an archeologist such as raindawg). it isn't possible to not do what you were designed to do. "leaving no trace" isn't possible for us. if we are going climbing, then we are going to leave a trace. quoting the holy scripture of the 1973 chouniard catalogue or religious leaders like reinhold messner won't change this fact about human activity.  And since it's impossible to leave no trace, let's just wreck it some more. Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Your argument seems to suggest that since we can't possibly have zero impact, anything goes.  i can't imagine anyone ever had fun climbing with a judgmental, pompous ass like you, pope. your stifling dogmatism and rigid self-righteousness couldn't possibly yield anything that anyone would deem "fun". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 i can't imagine anyone ever had fun climbing with a judgmental, pompous ass like you, pope. your stifling dogmatism and rigid self-righteousness couldn't possibly yield anything that anyone would deem "fun". Â Are you suggesting that they would disapprove of riding Mountain bikes on that trail I just posted above that is being built in the Colombia River Gorge? Cause I think they would like it El Jefe. I suspect that they would have a ball in some of the prettiest forests in the world and easily overlook the work, expense and environmental destruction it took to provide that experience. Â Perhaps they can answer that. For myself, I know I'd enjoy that. I've seen pics of them on Logging roads having fun with Mt bikes and they don't oppose the man made destruction of those trails and logging roads.... Â jus' sayin'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 so this means pope is the worst climber ever then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 ...all of which points up the absurdity of the "leave no trace ethic" in the first place. if you really want to leave no trace, then you'll just stay at home. i don't want to stay at home, so that means i've decided that i'm going to leave a trace. humans alter their environment, that's what they do (this much should be obvious, especially to an archeologist such as raindawg). it isn't possible to not do what you were designed to do. "leaving no trace" isn't possible for us. if we are going climbing, then we are going to leave a trace. quoting the holy scripture of the 1973 chouniard catalogue or religious leaders like reinhold messner won't change this fact about human activity.  And since it's impossible to leave no trace, let's just wreck it some more. Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Your argument seems to suggest that since we can't possibly have zero impact, anything goes.  i can't imagine anyone ever had fun climbing with a judgmental, pompous ass like you, pope. your stifling dogmatism and rigid self-righteousness couldn't possibly yield anything that anyone would deem "fun".  http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/tripreports/fromsearch/1/user_name/el%20jefe  Trip Report Index: Search Results for el jefe: Nothing. Nada. No trip reports. This moron does not climb at all. Browsing results of search for: Posted by el jefe, New Search  1 Date Type Location|Route Region Posted By Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponderosa Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Trip Report Index: Search Results for el jefe: Nothing. Nada. No trip reports. This moron does not climb at all. Â I'd hope you're being facetious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_noggin Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Clean climbing I did some of that last week I raped off a tree and installed anchors and cleaned off loose blocks and west side moss and dirt, after I pressure wash it and get it squeaky clean I will rap bolt it with the bolts 3 feet apart  Oh how I love that sport climbing , climbing overhanging climbs make you feel strong and look like a body builder, Oh and the hotties were out…love that eye candy…SPORT CLIMBINGS THE SHIT crotchety old sausage fest dudes Dick Head   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Trip Report Index: Search Results for el jefe: Nothing. Nada. No trip reports. This moron does not climb at all. Â I'd hope you're being facetious. Â number of trip reports on cc.com = climbing knowledge and experience, also know as the "fairweather assessment technique, alpine scaling skill" or FATASS measurement. according to the FATASS, ivan is clearly the burliest climber posting on cc.com since he is the current leader in terms of number of trip reports posted. this also would seem to indicate that, as the current leader, ivan is the reigning expert on climbing ethics and style. Â anyone want to try to explain how the FATASS measurement relates to the better known "chestbeater index"? i know that total number of posts on cc.com = one's "windbag score", and that > 5000 posts means your windbag score is "category 5 blowhard", etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 ...all of which points up the absurdity of the "leave no trace ethic" in the first place. if you really want to leave no trace, then you'll just stay at home. i don't want to stay at home, so that means i've decided that i'm going to leave a trace. humans alter their environment, that's what they do (this much should be obvious, especially to an archeologist such as raindawg). it isn't possible to not do what you were designed to do. "leaving no trace" isn't possible for us. if we are going climbing, then we are going to leave a trace. quoting the holy scripture of the 1973 chouniard catalogue or religious leaders like reinhold messner won't change this fact about human activity.  And since it's impossible to leave no trace, let's just wreck it some more. Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Your argument seems to suggest that since we can't possibly have zero impact, anything goes. el jefe has been around quite a bit longer than you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Trip Report Index: Search Results for el jefe: Nothing. Nada. No trip reports. This moron does not climb at all. Â I'd hope you're being facetious. Â number of trip reports on cc.com = climbing knowledge and experience, also know as the "fairweather assessment technique, alpine scaling skill" or FATASS measurement. according to the FATASS, ivan is clearly the burliest climber posting on cc.com since he is the current leader in terms of number of trip reports posted. this also would seem to indicate that, as the current leader, ivan is the reigning expert on climbing ethics and style. Â anyone want to try to explain how the FATASS measurement relates to the better known "chestbeater index"? i know that total number of posts on cc.com = one's "windbag score", and that > 5000 posts means your windbag score is "category 5 blowhard", etc. hahahahaha...coffee just sprayed outta my nostrils over that one! BAWHAHAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponderosa Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 blowhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 yepperz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 well certainly not sharing any trip reports is no measure of climbing prowess or knowledge. but it does make you wonder why that person is here in the first place. i suppose it is to take a turd on the contributions of others. Â good job with that, you're awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenSeagal Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm eagerly awaiting Raindawg and Pope's contribution to the "redpoint tactics" thread in the rock climbing forum. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm afraid their contribution has already been well documented. Prepare for regurgitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It seems like the best position to take on bolting has nothing to do with either sport or trad. Â Grid bolting, and bolting next to cracks suck. Chipping holds blows too. If a crag has a lot of history then stick with the long time practices (No DDD like routes on Castle). Â Â As far as hanging to install a bolt. Hanging allows you to concentrate on doing a good job. If you do place a bolt doing a good job is way more important and helps you not screw up and then place more bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Why didn't you just say that at the start of the thread Feck? Everyone could have agreed and we'd have saved maybe 43 pages of yackity yack. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Why didn't you just say that at the start of the thread Feck? Everyone could have agreed and we'd have saved maybe 43 pages of yackity yack. Â Feck's position (or at least a close variant thereof) has been stated several times in this thread already. Interestingly enough, these postings are ignored by pope/unidawg, who simply proceed with the "sporto" straw-man bashing. It's much more convenient for them to manufacture an opponent and what the opponent believes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It seems like the best position to take on bolting has nothing to do with either sport or trad. Grid bolting, and bolting next to cracks suck. Chipping holds blows too. If a crag has a lot of history then stick with the long time practices (No DDD like routes on Castle).   As far as hanging to install a bolt. Hanging allows you to concentrate on doing a good job. If you do place a bolt doing a good job is way more important and helps you not screw up and then place more bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 __________________________________________________________ next point: Â On related news, one of the greatest American climbers of all time and early climbing ethicist and clean climbing advocate, Royal Robbins, has just logged onto Supertopo. Username = Royal Robbins). Â Has an autobiography (or maybe 6) coming out and the pre-orders are now. John Long, one of the best climbing writers alive, gave it 5 of 5 stars after reading an advanced copy. Â http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=924898&tn=0&mr=0 Â http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=931436&tn=0&mr=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Â You omit the era/practice of nailing the hell out of cracks with the resultant scarring - leaving a substantial "trace" in the scarred lines. That practice altered routes, visual appearance, and the rock itself, comparatively, as much as anything (including bolted lines) that came after the '70's decade revelation/revolution of "clean climbing". Â Thanks for the history lesson. In other news, the ocean is wet and little bears play in the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm eagerly awaiting Raindawg and Pope's contribution to the "redpoint tactics" thread in the rock climbing forum. Â Redpoint = whole bunch of aid climbing followed by a top-roping with a little bit of slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Clean climbing I did some of that last week I raped off a tree ...... Â That's perverted. Try it with a bottle of wine next time.....maybe the tree will say yes to your "knotty" desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 ...all of which points up the absurdity of the "leave no trace ethic" in the first place. if you really want to leave no trace, then you'll just stay at home. i don't want to stay at home, so that means i've decided that i'm going to leave a trace. humans alter their environment, that's what they do (this much should be obvious, especially to an archeologist such as raindawg). it isn't possible to not do what you were designed to do. "leaving no trace" isn't possible for us. if we are going climbing, then we are going to leave a trace. quoting the holy scripture of the 1973 chouniard catalogue or religious leaders like reinhold messner won't change this fact about human activity.  And since it's impossible to leave no trace, let's just wreck it some more. Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Your argument seems to suggest that since we can't possibly have zero impact, anything goes.  i can't imagine anyone ever had fun climbing with a judgmental, pompous ass like you, pope. your stifling dogmatism and rigid self-righteousness couldn't possibly yield anything that anyone would deem "fun".  Try the PARTNERS FORUM. Sorry but I'm busy, unless you can pay my guide's fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.