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Sport vs Trad


Raindawg

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More sporty trad! Back on topic!

 

Nothin wrong with that.

Right guys?

 

Dunno, haven't done the route. How dodgy is that block that forms the right hand side of the crack? I mean, that Smith mud is solid and all, but the photo doesn't provide enough information to answer your question Bug. Anyone who has done the route have an opinion?

 

Are you kidding? The little creep with the punk-assed hemp hat has clipped a bolt higher than his knees, drilled next to a perfectly good crack, and he's eating his rope, no doubt in preparation for clipping yet another bullshit bolt. For added safety, maybe the route should also feature a plastic hold or two, which OW would probably defend by asking, "Dunno, how dodgy is that foothold?"

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So I'm left to discern that I'm not "qualified" in your eyes to comment on this topic simply because my view differs on the matter,

 

 

Exactly.

 

Either agree with Raindawg and Pope, or STFU, because you are "unqualified" to participate in the "discussion" (what a misnomer). As I said before, these fanatics can not comprehend how they can clearly be so RIGHT in such a clear-cut position as theirs - one for which there is no other possible valid position to have. So, STFU, everyone, listen to what Dawg and Pope have to say (yet again), kow-tow, kiss their feet (and ass) and agree with them absolutely. That's your choice. Allah akbar!

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

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Ok I’ll play your low self esteem game just to see if I can get some more of Donna, that was way too funny. :lmao:

Looks like Eric Mohler and Don Ryan 8D have been up smok, n that crack pipe again….search’n the web for pictures and think’n up witty antibolt things to post :rolleyes:

:fahq:

Rain and work brings out the best in me!

Rain in climbing season brings out the worst!

DICK HEAD :wave:

 

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Are you kidding? The little creep with the punk-assed hemp hat has clipped a bolt higher than his knees, drilled next to a perfectly good crack, and he's eating his rope, no doubt in preparation for clipping yet another bullshit bolt. For added safety, maybe the route should also feature a plastic hold or two, which OW would probably defend by asking, "Dunno, how dodgy is that foothold?"

 

My point was that the rush to judgment from your desk chair based solely on one photo and no experience with the route is a bunch of reactionary hot air, and I'd love to hear from someone with actual knowledge. Its not a defense, its a series of questions to point out that all the information needed to form a reasoned opinion is not contained in a single image. What does it sound like when you thump on that flake? Sure, if it's that hollow it would be pretty darn poor judgment to yard on it like that fellow, but we can't really tell from our respective keyboards, can we? There's bolt protection on Wheat Thin, it's a flake all the way, why did that punk ass creep Bridwell do that? Well, chances are you have a lot more information about Wheat Thin than you do about that thing in the picture, so we both have a more informed answer to that question.

 

In the same vein, you just know from one photo that the person in the picture is some little creep. What, because he's using some bolts that someone else put in? Can you tell someone is a creep based on your fashion bias? When you sit fuming at the keyboard, do you imagine yourself as Clint Eastwood in Grand Torino? I'm sure it's just me, but that's the voice I hear in my head when I read your post.

 

You're right though about the bolt at his navel as he's gearing up to clip a next piece. It appears pretty silly, but I have very limited information about the route in question.

 

The hat however is Poofterelle, a yarn hand spun from academic navel lint by starving interns in a grade-slavery scandal you'll read all about in the next National Geographic.

 

Oh yeah, insert the "whoa there Kreskin" reply about what the hell you know about how I think, how dare you put your response in my mouth. :laf:

 

The gap between what you think you know and what you actually know is far wider than you think.

 

 

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OW, you're correct to say that the photograph provides less than complete information, and that my observations/condemnations may have been made too quickly. But I'm probably right and you know it.

 

"The hat however is Poofterelle, a yarn hand spun from academic navel lint by starving interns in a grade-slavery scandal you'll read all about in the next National Geographic."

 

Nice! I'll have to read your long-winded essays more carefully from now on. One may actually find a few diamonds after sifting through tons of coal.

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Like Off said:

 

I just added a bolt to a route (the only bolt in 2 pitches). There is what appears to be a perfect finger crack 20 feet up. Pounding on the right hand side of the "crack" gets a hollow feeling and you realize that this is a flake. Not loose, but a flake. It forms the right side of a perfect crack and works soooo sooo sweet as a finger lock and a perfect yellow alien placement.

 

However, a fall on a cam in that "perfect finger crack" would force the flake to move. If the flake pulled off, it would land and undoubtedly kill the belayer directly below. The belay location is on a steep hillside with a small stance, so the belayer can't chose to be elsewhere. Perhaps worse, the perfect fingerlocks would disappear.

 

The bolt was placed before the 3nd ascent when a more experienced climber than I (I've been climbing 37 years) layed out to me this very scenario which I had been thinking. In a picture though, it would look like a bolt stuck near a perfect crack....well, it is a perfect crack and fingerlock. The bolt on the super solid main wall to the left will save the belayers life AND preserve a great fingerlock at some future point. An accident in this area, as it is remote and no cell phone coverage, would be a disaster on many levels, not the least of which would be the perfect fingerlocks disappearing. The grade is 5.7, you and I can pull it in the dark, hungover, with our eyes closed, but some beginner unquestionably will show up and fall on a cam in that alleged crack at some point. Maybe you or I would be belaying them? So you are all welcome.

 

Taaaa Daaaa !

 

There is nothing wrong with chopping bolts next to cracks that take good gear in my mind. Chop chop if you know the route, the history, and the area and it's just a convineance bolt.

 

How many bolts have you and Don chopped in real life Pope?

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All men have secrets and here is mine

So let it be known

For we have been through hell and high tide

I think I can rely on you ...

And yet you start to recoil

Heavy words are so lightly thrown

But still I'd leap in front of a flying bullet for you

 

So, what difference does it make ?

So, what difference does it make ?

It makes none

But now you have gone

And you must be looking very old tonight

 

The devil will find work for idle hands to do

I stole and I lied, and why ?

Because you asked me to !

But now you make me feel so ashamed

Because I've only got two hands

Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh

 

So, what difference does it make ?

Oh, what difference does it make ?

Oh, it makes none

But now you have gone

And your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight

 

Oh, the devil will find work for idle hands to do

I stole, and then I lied

Just because you asked me to

But now you know the truth about me

You won't see me anymore

Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh

 

But no more apologies

No more, no more apologies

Oh, I'm too tired

I'm so sick and tired

And I'm feeling very sick and ill today

But I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh

 

Oh, my sacred one ...

Oh ...

 

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But I'm probably right and you know it.

 

Yes, you're probably right about that route. Inappropriate bolting next to cracks and ridiculously close bolt spacing does happen, and I'm not a supporter of that sort of thing. I just wanted to make the point that pictures don't tell the whole story. Even with the bolt there, I'd thump on that flake before I yarded on it.

 

Thanks Bill for providing a concrete example, that's just the sort of thing I had in mind.

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So I'm left to discern that I'm not "qualified" in your eyes to comment on this topic simply because my view differs on the matter,

 

 

Exactly.

 

Either agree with Raindawg and Pope, or STFU, because you are "unqualified" to participate in the "discussion" (what a misnomer). As I said before, these fanatics can not comprehend how they can clearly be so RIGHT in such a clear-cut position as theirs - one for which there is no other possible valid position to have. So, STFU, everyone, listen to what Dawg and Pope have to say (yet again), kow-tow, kiss their feet (and ass) and agree with them absolutely. That's your choice. Allah akbar!

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

MURDER.jpg

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