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Sport vs Trad


Raindawg

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..... I would maintain that many bolted areas are places nobody would ever visit (up and close) to "appreciate the rock". Take the Far Side at exit 38 as one example. ....

 

KK, don't maintain that position too long. One of these days you're going to visit a sport climbing area other than Exit 38. Ever been to Smith Rock? Here's a spot that was frequented by hikers and bird watchers together with a handful of respectful rock climbers before near-sighted rock jocks threw their ethics out the window and decided it was acceptable to rap bolt every line of pockets, corner and crack in the park. The impact in terms of numbers, erosion, garbage, and noise have wrecked a place which once was special. Similar evolution at the City of Rocks.

 

If sport climbing and grid bolting only existed at scruffy crags in the middle of clear-cut ORV areas, I wouldn't protest. Instead, bolts show up in the form of rap-placed protection and sport anchors three feet below a good belay ledge on crags where generations of climbers found enjoyment without them.

 

What I find most interesting is how many people on this site come out in strident opposition to the removal of bolts which many climbers find offensive, in cases that should be clear-cut. Climbs which protect adequately with natural gear, climbs which have been boldly ascended without bolts, short climbs that have been top-roped, climbs requiring larger cams to which chicken bolts are later added. And when serious, specific discussions appear on this site wherein the removal of such bolts is debated, perhaps in colorful language, the post is ALWAYS moved to spray. So to Bug and others who get frustrated by all of this, just spray away, throw a wrench in the machine once in a while, and send me a PM if you wanna remove some chicken bolts.

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What I find most interesting is how many people on this site come out in strident opposition to the removal of bolts which many climbers find offensive, in cases that should be clear-cut.

 

remind me about climbs which fit the above criterion, since i and i'm sure others have no idea which routes you speak of.

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Climbs which protect adequately with natural gear, climbs which have been boldly ascended without bolts, short climbs that have been top-roped, climbs requiring larger cams to which chicken bolts are later added. And when serious, specific discussions appear on this site wherein the removal of such bolts is debated, perhaps in colorful language, the post is ALWAYS moved to spray. So to Bug and others who get frustrated by all of this, just spray away, throw a wrench in the machine once in a while, and send me a PM if you wanna remove some chicken bolts.

 

Your post is about ss much 'serious discussion' as I've seen on this thread or any started by Raindawg.

 

So, you want to remove "chicken bolts". What else? Rap or belay anchors? Old crusty pitons stuck on routes? And is this "cleanup" limited to just cragging areas like Smith Rock, or are you going to do it (or advocated doing it) on popular peaks as well?

 

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"No, dude...the future is going to judge the current legitimization of sport-climbing as a Dark Age in which the "leave no trace" ethic, adopted by most outdoor pursuits during the last 40 years, has been recklessly ignored for convenience and self-gratification. And mostly on public property....enjoy it while it lasts, because it's not going to last forever.

 

P.S. It has nothing to do with being "bad ass"...I also face climb just fine."

 

This is a legitimate claim. You may not like it and you may not agree with it. But eventually, your "bolts everywhere" standard is going to be cut off by legal means.

You moderators are chicken shit assholes for moving this to spray.

CascadeBolters.com is on its way out just like spandex climbing tights.

Fuck off.

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Sport Climb-bers = the dude in da lizard suit

Trad Re-enactors = da cavemen wit da skillz

 

[video:youtube]

 

The future gonna judge you re-enactors as mighty primitive

 

 

 

Hey, this is a non spray response delivered with respect to the tradition of the birth of this sacred thread. Please note the resemblance of the guy wrestling the lizard to a young Rheinhold. Totally on topic!

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Dan's Dreadful Direct and Cunning Stunt for example.

 

hmmmm i'm not sure you'd get a lot of disagreement with those, would you? add angora grotto to that list while you're at it, and i'd be happier. i've never met anyone who agreed with the retro bolting of cunning stunt; it pisses me off that it has bolts, when it's a great trad climb. any idea who keeps re-bolting it?

 

anyways, that' a pretty short list, right? hardly something to get all worked up about.... i don't think we in washington have areas as sensitive as say joshua tree, where overbolting creates an eye-sore in a really special place. our crags are pretty isolated and generally pretty chossy and only visited by climbers (ok sure leavenworth is possibly an exception, but i don't notice chalk and bolts when driving through, unlike j tree).

 

 

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