BillA Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 This is a nationally recognized program that trains participants to respond to emergencies in remote settings. The 80-hour curriculum includes standards for urban and extended care situations. Special topics include but are not limited to: wound management and infection, realigning fractures and dislocations, improvised splinting techniques, patient monitoring and long term management problems, up-to-date information on all environmental emergencies, plus advice on drug therapies. Emphasis is placed on prevention and decision-making, not the memorization of lists. This course is designed specifically to provide you with the tools to make critical medical and evacuation decisions in remote locations. Half of your time will be spent completing practical skills, case studies and scenarios designed to challenge your decision making abilities. The WMI Adult and Child CPR is included in the course. June 12-21 at Mt. Hood Community College. Call 503.491.7353 or wfr@mhcc.edu for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I took this course from WMI and learned as much in 9 days as I did during an 11-week EMT-B course. Highly recommended for any climber or backcountry enthusiast as a baseline proficiency for remote, unsupported patient treatment and stabilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Highly recommended for any climber or backcountry enthusiast as a baseline proficiency for remote, unsupported patient treatment and stabilization. Baseline proficiency can be just as easily gleaned from WMI's 16 to 24-hour Wilderness First Aid (WFA, not WFR) course. Eighty hours is a huge commitment, and while I would agree with marcus that it's a lot of really great stuff, the WFR course is really geared towards those that would be owners of expedition companies, mountain guides, etc. whose daily line of work makes them responsible for their clients' health and welfare. The WFA class is good enough for the majority of us weekend warriors off on an alpine adventure or a hike through the Picketts. IMHO. Click on a course and read the syllabus... NOLS WMI courses I recertify my WFA every two years to stay current, just in case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollinWoods Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Nicely said Sobo. As a member of SAR i will agree with you. 80 h's equals a lot of money and commitment. If you have the time i say go for it but otherwise i recomand taking the 16 to 24-hour Wilderness First Aid or even the mountaineering oriented first aid course for any outdoor-sy person. But being said, the WFR course is something great to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displaced Native Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) Highly recommended for any climber or backcountry enthusiast as a baseline proficiency for remote, unsupported patient treatment and stabilization. Baseline proficiency can be just as easily gleaned from WMI's 16 to 24-hour Wilderness First Aid (WFA, not WFR) course. Eighty hours is a huge commitment, and while I would agree with marcus that it's a lot of really great stuff, the WFR course is really geared towards those that would be owners of expedition companies, mountain guides, etc. whose daily line of work makes them responsible for their clients' health and welfare. The WFA class is good enough for the majority of us weekend warriors off on an alpine adventure or a hike through the Picketts. IMHO. Click on a course and read the syllabus... NOLS WMI courses I recertify my WFA every two years to stay current, just in case... So if I am to understand you correctly...baseline proficiency is adequate enough because serious things never happen to weekend warriors? Is that not akin to having a new belayer (someone who just learned how) belay you on a moderate lead climb because you hardly ever fall anyways? Not like holds ever break or anything... Steve Edited May 16, 2009 by Displaced Native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Steve, I believe that you do not understand me correctly at all. Yes, baseline proficiency can be gleaned from the 16/24 hour WFA course. It covers a shitload of injuries that an outdoorsy person is likely to encounter and their management. Just about anything that can be treated in the field with a small FA kit, some sticks for splints, and a few functioning brain cells. But not every single scenario or contingency. For many of us here (the weekend warriors), the WFA is plenty of knowledge and will cover just about anything we're ever likely to see. That is what I call baseline proficiency. Your definition may vary, being a medic. Mine is aforestated. Of course serious things happen to weekend warriors. Fuck, read this account of Dane's 20-foot pro-less crater at Castle Rock. Is that "serious" enough for you? Was it handled with my definition of baseline proficiency? Read the thread and you be the judge. Regarding your comment about a new belayer, I see no sense in spending huge sums of money and time on something that ain't likely to ever happen or ever get fixed. Kinda like the way government solves problems... or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkporwit Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I don't think that WFR is primarily useful to guides, camp counselors, etc. If you look at it purely from a SAR perspective, then yes, WFR is overkill, as by the time SAR gets to a subject the person is typically stable or dead (which is also stable, I suppose). There is a lot of material in WFR that even your average weekend warrior will benefit from, however. The two biggest advantages are protocols for clearing c-spine and for reducing sprains and dislocations. These both give you a shot at self-evacuation when you're far from the trailhead by hopefully allowing the subject to be (somewhat?) mobile. Yeah, there's a lot of crap in WFR about dental emergencies, organizing a search for little Johnny, dealing with diabetic episodes, etc, which is of secondary utility, so go ahead and bite the bullet and commit the 80 hours...so bite the bullet, get it and keep it current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollinWoods Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 If you look at it like it would be good to have because of the experience points, there are many other courses and certs that would be helpful too. Like high angle rescue, personal rescue and many other things. Is it worth it to take all the time and cash (those course aint cheap) to teach a few friends to climb at the Exits or Vantage? Some might think so but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I don't think that WFR is primarily useful to guides, camp counselors, etc. If you look at it purely from a SAR perspective, then yes, WFR is overkill, as by the time SAR gets to a subject the person is typically stable or dead (which is also stable, I suppose). Marcin, I'm not looking at it from a SAR perspective. If I were, I would agree with you that WFR is overkill. I was looking at it from the standpoint of a 2-person climbing team in the alpine/backwoods, requiring self-assessment, self-reliance, and self-evac skilz. WFR would be nice, but it's not necessary. WFA is adequate for this scenario. Self-rescue skilz, like belay-escape and lowering, are also essential to have mastered. Obviously, that last skillset is not taught in neither WFA nor WFR. What I was trying to get across in my first post and in my response to Displaced_Native is this: I believe that when an expedition company, outfitter, or a guide is taking a client into the alpine/backwoods and collecting payment for same, then that company/individual is largely responsible for the safety, health, and welfare of that client (assuming the client doesn't do something negligent/stoopid). If you accept that premise, then it logically follows that a greater level of study and mastery of the subject matter is required on the part of the outfitter/guide. That is why I believe that WFR is more geared to the "professional" outdoorsman-for-hire, and is overkill for the weekend warrior. There is a lot of material in WFR that even your average weekend warrior will benefit from, however. The two biggest advantages are protocols for clearing c-spine and for reducing sprains and dislocations. These both give you a shot at self-evacuation when you're far from the trailhead by hopefully allowing the subject to be (somewhat?) mobile. Both of the protocols you mention above (highlighted) are taught rigorously in WFA as well, especially the spinal clearing. Therefore, in my opinion, WFA will give you just as credible a shot at self-evac as will WFR, and at only 20 to 30 percent of the time investment and a significant cost savings. Ergo, my earlier statement that WFA is sufficient for baseline proficiency for the weekend warrior, IMHO. WFA does not teach anything about emergency dental procedures, searches for Little Johnny, etc. Those are things that I consider not very likely that I will ever have to contend with in the alpine. For the record, I cleared Dane's spine with the knowledge I gained from repeated recertifications of WFA. He's walking around just fine, and climbing better than alot of us here. I've also reset a dislocated finger and a shoulder a few years back, again from what I learned at WFA. I regularly treat the numerous splinters, lacerations, contusions, and abrasions my kids come to me with during their day-to-day adventures. Finally even got to close one of my son's self-inflicted knife wounds with my Steri-Strips. That was fun! So I rest my case with respect to WFA vs. WFR for the weekend warrior's baseline proficiency standard. My $0.02 YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkporwit Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Sobo, if they're teaching reducing of dislocations and clearing c-spine in WFA these days then I would agree with you that you get most of the crucial stuff in WFA and WFR is just the cherry on top. Last I took WFA (12? 13? years ago) they didn't cover that, so it was new to me when I took WFR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Marcin, I took my very first WFA course 8 years ago, in October of 2000, and they taught all of that stuff then. I've recertified every 2 years since 2000 and that stuff has been a large and critical part of the 2-day course every time. BillA, Please know that this discussion is NOT meant to deter interest in people singing up for the WFR course you are advertising. I just tought that people should be aware of the differences (and similarities) between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillA Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 No problem, I think this is an interesting discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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