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Close Gitmo?


Serenity

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Fighting terrorism with the military is the poorest idea of all, though. When it comes to terrorism, the military is our crudest and least effective weapon. Our values, diplomacy, economy, strategic relationships, international alliances, and law enforcement together are the only effective frontlines against terrorism. Any time we have to deploy our military against terrorists we have essentially failed and are being forced to use our solution of last resort. The military has a role to play in an integrated whole, but it should be in a service, rather than a leading, role.

 

Sorry, you're very astute, but not entirely right in this case. All those things play into it, but a fair sized portion of the threat resides on a battlefield that no LE agency can handle, and no pure diplomacy will resolve.

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Sorry, you're very astute, but not entirely right in this case. All those things play into it, but a fair sized portion of the threat resides on a battlefield that no LE agency can handle, and no pure diplomacy will resolve.

That's my point though, once 'battlefields' are in play we've already failed on multiple fronts and putting guys like you in bad positions that were best avoided by other means. Once our military is in play, however, then we need to provide them with any and all resources they needs to be effective - which includes appropriate combatant detention centers.

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Good article, but it should be noted that would also require changes to how we pursue our coporate and national interests relative to the political structures of nation-states, i.e. we need to insure SOF isn't synonymous with death squads and paramilitaries supporting corporate interests above those of the population at large. That [containment] legacy is why many Central and South American nations have turned against us over time.

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Fighting terrorism with the military is the poorest idea of all, though. When it comes to terrorism, the military is our crudest and least effective weapon. Our values, diplomacy, economy, strategic relationships, international alliances, and law enforcement together are the only effective frontlines against terrorism. Any time we have to deploy our military against terrorists we have essentially failed and are being forced to use our solution of last resort. The military has a role to play in an integrated whole, but it should be in a service, rather than a leading, role.

 

Sorry, you're very astute, but not entirely right in this case. All those things play into it, but a fair sized portion of the threat resides on a battlefield that no LE agency can handle, and no pure diplomacy will resolve.

 

 

JH is right and Serenity is flat out wrong.

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Are you fucking kidding? You can't piss out a forest fire homes. Your shitty diplomacy, fucked up economy and your lack of law enforcement (crippled by liberals) is the reason that there is a forest fire.

 

Better drink up bud.

 

Shitty law enforcement? We've got 2.2 million people in prison right now, by far the highest incarceration rate in the world.

 

What universe do you hail from?

 

Joseph's post is spot on.

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There are a number of people in the intelligence community who have stated that building a rapport and changing the status of detainees from combatant to non-combatant would have been a wise thing to do previously. This does not change the fact that closing detention facilities is not a wise move. Changing what happens in those prisons and from a legal standpoint is.

 

This lean towards a law enforcement solution is a poor idea.

so you believe its possible to have a secret prison and NOT torture people in it?

 

Yeah, Gitmo is such a SECRET!

 

He's refering to the network of CIA black sites around the world. They were a very bad idea, and now, fortunately, they are being shut down by order of the President.

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Fighting terrorism with the military is the poorest idea of all, though. When it comes to terrorism, the military is our crudest and least effective weapon. Our values, diplomacy, economy, strategic relationships, international alliances, and law enforcement together are the only effective frontlines against terrorism. Any time we have to deploy our military against terrorists we have essentially failed and are being forced to use our solution of last resort. The military has a role to play in an integrated whole, but it should be in a service, rather than a leading, role.

 

 

Sorry, you're very astute, but not entirely right in this case. All those things play into it, but a fair sized portion of the threat resides on a battlefield that no LE agency can handle, and no pure diplomacy will resolve.

 

If there can be no political solution, then you're claiming that perpetual warfare is unavoidable.

 

It's a small minded I idea that I don't subscribe to. We're Americans; we're supposed to be good at figuring shit out, and I believe we can eventually...if we walk our talk. So far, we haven't.

 

Edited by tvashtarkatena
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It seems to me that trust is a big part of being a citizen. For instance, we should be trusting that the Pentagon is war gaming how to get the most bang for the buck internationally from our military and diplomacy. By that I mean how do we maximize our safety while minimizing the expense? The Pentagon hires 27,000 people to work on Public Relations that various issues, like Guantanamo, causes. 27,000. and they have a budget as well. Good PR isn't cheap. To say nothing of what happens if an insurgency develops in some remote country that is anti-US based on these kinds of issues. Furthermore, I agree with Mike above that changing what happens is the more important component of the equations, more so than closing a particular place, however, Gitmo is a polarizing issue now, so that cat is out of the bag. Frankly, I would not want to not have the tools that seem to be so routinely utilized there, available. If, like an OAK tree, the US were to stand firm, it is a matter of time until the rest of the world pulls the "international law" card and force us to pull it off the table.

 

Be better to have that card(s) up the sleeve for an emergency than not.

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Fighting terrorism with the military is the poorest idea of all, though. When it comes to terrorism, the military is our crudest and least effective weapon. Our values, diplomacy, economy, strategic relationships, international alliances, and law enforcement together are the only effective frontlines against terrorism. Any time we have to deploy our military against terrorists we have essentially failed and are being forced to use our solution of last resort. The military has a role to play in an integrated whole, but it should be in a service, rather than a leading, role.

 

Sorry, you're very astute, but not entirely right in this case. All those things play into it, but a fair sized portion of the threat resides on a battlefield that no LE agency can handle, and no pure diplomacy will resolve.

 

 

JH is right and Serenity is flat out wrong.

 

Your abs must be ripped!

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Sting sums this thread up well:

 

 

There is no political solution

To our troubled evolution

Have no faith in constitution

There is no bloody revolution

 

We are spirits in the material world

Are spirits in the material world

 

Our so-called leaders speak

With words they try to jail you

They subjugate the meek

But it's the rhetoric of failure

We are spirits in the material world

Are spirits in the material world

 

Where does the answer lie?

Living from day to day

If it's something we can't buy

There must be another way

 

We are spirits in the material world

Are spirits in the material world

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It seems to me that trust is a big part of being a citizen. For instance, we should be trusting that the Pentagon is war gaming how to get the most bang for the buck internationally from our military and diplomacy. By that I mean how do we maximize our safety while minimizing the expense?

 

Bill... you're kidding, right? Think of any weapons upgrade, whether it is the B-1 bomber or the latest generation fighters, or the pathetic trucks we sent to Iraq in which our troops had to put sandbags on the floor or weld scrap metal onto. We should trust the pentagon procurement office to make good choices?

 

I agree with part of your premise, and I stated this point the other night in response to one of Serenity's posts: we DO have to have some measure of trust or respect or appreciation and at some level we cannot second-guess everything. At least not on an operational level. But when we are talking about procurement? (Let alone policy) The larger point remains: at the fundamental levels we can and should second guess pretty much everything.

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The major military decisions and expenditures are decided and pushed by politicians who want pork for their districts, and by presidents who want to secure a dynasty for their party by pandering to an ever-popular form of national paranoia. These people are absolutely never to be trusted, and should have an arthroscope up their ass at all times. They spend our money not based on effiency or mission, but based on political pressure. Practicality and efficiency is not their strong suit.

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Fighting terrorism with the military is the poorest idea of all, though. When it comes to terrorism, the military is our crudest and least effective weapon. Our values, diplomacy, economy, strategic relationships, international alliances, and law enforcement together are the only effective frontlines against terrorism. Any time we have to deploy our military against terrorists we have essentially failed and are being forced to use our solution of last resort. The military has a role to play in an integrated whole, but it should be in a service, rather than a leading, role.

 

Sorry, you're very astute, but not entirely right in this case. All those things play into it, but a fair sized portion of the threat resides on a battlefield that no LE agency can handle, and no pure diplomacy will resolve.

 

 

JH is right and Serenity is flat out wrong.

 

Kevbone, as usual your perspective and opinion from the mean streets of Portland is about as fucking worthless as you are.

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The major military decisions and expenditures are decided and pushed by politicians who want pork for their districts, and by presidents who want to secure a dynasty for their party by pandering to an ever-popular form of national paranoia. These people are absolutely never to be trusted, and should have an arthroscope up their ass at all times. They spend our money not based on effiency or mission, but based on political pressure. Practicality and efficiency is not their strong suit.

 

You have once gain displayed your penchant for conspiracy paranoia all the while decrying paranoia.

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Are you fucking kidding? You can't piss out a forest fire homes. Your shitty diplomacy, fucked up economy and your lack of law enforcement (crippled by liberals) is the reason that there is a forest fire.

 

Better drink up bud.

 

Shitty law enforcement? We've got 2.2 million people in prison right now, by far the highest incarceration rate in the world.

 

What universe do you hail from?

 

Joseph's post is spot on.

 

No, it's not. However I will point out once again that from you sterilized environment it probably seems to be. This post started as a troll, and remains as equally useless despite all your attempts to argue otherwise.

 

With your super secret squirrel clandestine background you allude to (bullshit), why don't you get yourself in the game for a few years and open your mind. Oh, I forgot...you're too busy being 'brave' from the rear with the gear.

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