moonrover Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hello all Bellinghammers, I'm putting together a plan for a new climbing gym in the Ham. To get the bank loan, however, I need to prove there is demand for one. (Yeah, I know, good luck to me in this 'economic climate'). This means solid numbers, which is where you come in. I have made a survey and am trying to get as many filled out as possible. PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy in Word, which you can fill out and send back to me by email or by post, whichever you prefer. I am working on getting this online, as well, but so far the tools I am seeing are pretty shoddy. If you know of a good (cheap/free) online survey tool, do share. Obviously I am only in the planning stages, and if I can't see that there is a strong enough demand to pay the bills, I won't be able to do it. Any helpful support, feedback, etc is appreciated. Please, only people actually living in, around, or about to move to Bellingham to respond. Thanks!! -moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You can use the poll feature on here. PM me if you need help. Use the economic climate to your advantage. There is a lot of empty business space available now, so you can lock in a cheap lease. Construction labor and material prices have plummeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 survey monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkane Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Google Polls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hew can there be a demand for a gym with the high quality Sehome boulders so close by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchips Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I second the suggestion for survey monkey. If you want to demonstrate demand, take your financial backer down to the Y on a rainy weeknight, and see how many people are down there who want to climb, but didn't get there early enough to get a pass. I think alot of people pay the $33/mo just to use the limited climbing facilities at they Y. I'd also second the notion that this is a good time to think about starting a new gym; you could lock in a low cost lease and construction costs are way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBo6 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Sick of WWU's gym, so it has potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonrover Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Thanks everyone Try this: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=l5uSsVE4tFV1hMFEgd3YeQ_3d_3d Appreciate your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonrover Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 woodchips, interesting that people are paying $33 at the Y b/c most so far are saying they'd only pay less than $25/mo, which is *totally* impossible. Even $35 would be tough. Looks like this may not work out, after all. I'll let the survey play out but not getting my hopes up. Hopefully some millionaire comes along to build one for free! m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I don't rally think it's going to work. First of all you have YMCA and WWU with their half ass gyms. That will still steal some of your potential clients. Second of all b-ham has business oppressive fees: like traffic impact fee for a new business. Count on at least 15-20K range- that's before you even apply for building permits. Building permits are equally out of hand. B-ham is a strange little town where nobody wants to pay for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchips Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I wouldn't get too worried about a few cheapskates on here saying they wouldn't pay much; somehow the rest of the gyms out there are convincing people they're worth more than that. I went to the Y tonight and ten minutes before climbing was to start, there were already 7 people on the waiting list. This town's ready for it. Persist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd also second the notion that this is a good time to think about starting a new gym; you could lock in a low cost lease and construction costs are way down. i think your statement doesn't really have much to do with reality. unfortunately commercial property leases did not go down at all, neither did the cost of building materials or labour. on the other hand city keeps on raising fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 At the risk of sounding like a dick, I think you'd fail, and lose a shitload of money in the process. Don't do it. We've already had two gyms go under, and the Y and WWU walls are heavily subsidized by the institutions that manage them. The Y, for instance, is staffed primarily by volunteers who exchange their time for access to the wall. No successful business could adopt this model, you'd have to pay employees, their L&I, payroll tax, etc, not to mention all your other bills. If your expenses are, say, $8000 a month, you'd need 160 paying customers to break even. Good luck with that. There aren't enough climbers in B'Ham that would be interested, IMO, and we are in the shittiest of economic times. You'd lose your shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrgo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 It's hard to compete when 10,000 students already have free gym membership to WWU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchips Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd also second the notion that this is a good time to think about starting a new gym; you could lock in a low cost lease and construction costs are way down. i think your statement doesn't really have much to do with reality. unfortunately commercial property leases did not go down at all, neither did the cost of building materials or labour. on the other hand city keeps on raising fees. Perhaps I'm not seeing the big picture, but I work as an estimator for a general contractor, doing precisely this kind of work, and have seen the costs of both of these items significantly decrease in the past months. There's also alot more room for negotiation now. I hear you about the city fees, though. There are several towns the size of Bellingham that are supporting gyms, so it certainly is viable in some places. That said, it certainly wouldn't be easy, but could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_joe Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 It's hard to compete when 10,000 students already have free gym membership to WWU. I dunno about that. Granted I have not been to the WWU gym, but if it is anything like the hunk of shite we have at UO, then I can easily see getting any and all serious college climbers to join your gym. The Crux in Eugene definitely has that going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcJizzy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 It's hard to compete when 10,000 students already have free gym membership to WWU. I dunno about that. Granted I have not been to the WWU gym, but if it is anything like the hunk of shite we have at UO, then I can easily see getting any and all serious college climbers to join your gym. The Crux in Eugene definitely has that going for it. Population of Bellingham WA : 75,000 Population of Eugene OR : 154,000 Population of Whatcom County WA: 166,000 Population of Lane County OR: 322,000 Ya think the deomgraphics are a little different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but I think a new gym in bellingham would fail. I worked for a guy in '98 that built the gym on cormwall. It lasted for about a year (with little activity). It's now much more sucsesful as a revival gospel mission. I love the Y. Beyond a wall and weights (see comment below), it's got aerobic machines, sauna, racquetball, hoops, yoga and fitness programs, parking, and a kick-ass clientele. I'd get old of listening to climbers at a climbing gym real quick. I'd rather hear a drunk talk about needing to catch the bus than some dick climber spray about cc.com. A note about weights: seems like many climbing gyms think a bench, a universal machine, and some free weights constitute a good weight room. Wrong. Check the y: they've got over 30 different stations, and they're still adding things. Way better workout. As noted above, the Y and wwu walls don't stay up because they bring in the revenue, they stay up because they're subsidized as part of larger programs. Again, I don't want to sound like an ass, I just think this project wouldn't fly as you've presented it. If you're still interested in this project, I think it would be wise to analyze the previous walls in the ham that have failed (the one on cormwall, the leading edge, etc) and create a business model that dodges these. Maybe a private club in your enlarged garage w/ minimal facilities? Think outside the box! Good luck in future endeavors. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Dave, Was that Carlos Hatfield you worked for? If so, Alex and I helped build that POS gym Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtveld Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Much as I'd love to see you succeed, you'd start with problems attracting critical customer groups. Hard-core sport climbers: Most of them either have their own bouldering wall or a friend with one. School kids (classes, birthday parties etc.): You've got to convince the parent you've got a better or cheaper venue than the Y. This will take time. WWU students: See previous posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Dave, Was that Carlos Hatfield you worked for? If so, Alex and I helped build that POS gym Dan I think this was the guy. Good guy, bad plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artslim Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Some reasons why a gym would work in the Ham. The main argument that there is already two gyms in Bellingham does not work. Lets be real. Both gyms suck. I currently volunteer at both the Y and the Western wall. They are not climbing gyms. They are a rec facility that happens to have a crappy wall attached to it. Being a recent student. Any dedicated climber that actually cares about getting better would leave the rec center and join a real climbing gym. Western would actually be a great launch pad for climbers, for when they really get serious they could go to a real gym. Another argument was made that serious climbers have there own gyms/woodies that they climb at. I have my own gym. And i do climb at other "hard core sport climber" gyms. But they are nothing compared to a real climbing gym. You cannot compare a real gym to the two prior gyms that have been attempted to be put up. The leading edge was a joke gym that smelled like feet. If a real gym is put up there is a real chance of it working out, obviously there is risk, especially since our economy is in the crapper. But seriously we live in Bellingham where our only choice of exercise indoors is to lift heavy things. if this new gym sells to the Bellingham community of being a community oriented green facility it could have a good chance of working. The main reason it would not work is the economy not because of the two crappy gyms that noone wants to climb at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_joe Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's hard to compete when 10,000 students already have free gym membership to WWU. I dunno about that. Granted I have not been to the WWU gym, but if it is anything like the hunk of shite we have at UO, then I can easily see getting any and all serious college climbers to join your gym. The Crux in Eugene definitely has that going for it. Population of Bellingham WA : 75,000 Population of Eugene OR : 154,000 Population of Whatcom County WA: 166,000 Population of Lane County OR: 322,000 Ya think the deomgraphics are a little different? I don't agree that 75,000 is to small a population to support a gym, much less the 166,00 in the county. In fact I think that Eugene could use another gym, the Crux is stretched to the seams most weeknights. So, yeah I would think 75,000 more than enough to support a gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonrover Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Thanks everyone for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2THEK Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 bring it! I need to train , the Y is ok but too crowded, I'll pay, I'll pay! The vision in Canmore, AB rocks , it's a bit expensive but so worth the cost when you get outside & crush it cause you're ripped from workin it all the time. Bring it I say!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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