billcoe Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Oh, thats right 3.7 billion dollars short. Hmmm, billion dollars here - billion dollars there, pretty soon it adds up to real money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Sorry Bill. Incomplete thoughts don't qualify you for ward 3. If you want to spend time with TTK and j_b, it will have to be while they're using their day passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 This thread is a perfect example of why I've lost interest in Spray lately. You guys apparently suggest you are superior but at least Bill first admitted that he rehashed some complete baloney though, sadly, his next "substantive" post indicated either that he misread the article he was commenting on or that the response had little substantive to say about it and then he bristles at a dismissive response. Fairweather on the other hand first insults the Gubernator for being infected with Democratness and then goes after J_B while he has contributed next to nothing of substance about anything. Bill at least leaves room for discussion while being superior. Fairweather none. Â I know: you guys will say "lighten up." But I think it'd be fun to actually talk politics some time. Have fun guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STP Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The Terminator said 'Fiscal Armageddon'.  Don't plan on retiring with a pension plan.  CalPERS may need bailout  Downgraded credit ratings S&P Downgrades California Bond Issue  Raise taxes, cut spending OR declare insolvent.  Maybe the state and/or feds should sell off assets such as parks to private interests...hmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) ".... John Chiang announces that his office will suspend $3.7 billion in payments owed to Californians starting Feb. 1, ..... Â I don't know what it all means either JB. Maybe you can figure it out later? I can't imagine where they will get that 3.7 billion! Â Now what was Jayb sayin' before you started flaming him....hmmmm? Lets re-read the thread shall we? Â I didn't say that it was irrelevant to the discussion but said I wasn't sure how it related to the article. Your ignoring the elephant in the room (most of the increase was spent on jailing people while there was no increase in social spendings per capita during a longstanding downturn in the real economy) while pointing out that little increases, on we don't know what, add up, led me to question what exactly you wanted to convey. Let's be honest here, when the government-is-the-problem people point to government spending increases without mentionning the main reason for the increase while they usually support decrease in social spendings, there is reason to be concerned about the logic and facts they use to support their argument (stated or implied). Now you can cut and paste the same post again but I am not sure how it'll clarify what you are trying to say. Edited January 20, 2009 by j_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 This thread is a perfect example of why I've lost interest in Spray lately. You guys apparently suggest you are superior but at least Bill first admitted that he rehashed some complete baloney though, sadly, his next "substantive" post indicated either that he misread the article he was commenting on or that the response had little substantive to say about it and then he bristles at a dismissive response. Fairweather on the other hand first insults the Gubernator for being infected with Democratness and then goes after J_B while he has contributed next to nothing of substance about anything. Bill at least leaves room for discussion while being superior. Fairweather none. Â I know: you guys will say "lighten up." But I think it'd be fun to actually talk politics some time. Have fun guys! Â I don't know what else you expect from conservatives. It's not like they can use reality to support their point of view. Short of weaving, dodging, cherry picking facts, unsubstantiated ad-hominem attacks, ... what exactly do you want them to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Bill at least leaves room for discussion while being superior. Â Well, that whole thing goes away quickly once I sober up...... ... Â Â Â I do appreciate some of the discourse we have had in the past Matt. I'll try to do better and not be such a smartypants in the future. frankly, I continually get new info from this site (today, the STP link to Armstrong's economic cycle strategy's posted over on the Obama Giddyness thread for instance looks to be a fascinating, interesting and very deep well I never knew of). Â JB, apology extended to you as well if I came off like a dick.....that line between humor and dickyness can be a fine one, that often doesn't come off written like I would say it directly to you verbally.... Edited January 20, 2009 by billcoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) This thread is a perfect example of why I've lost interest in Spray lately. You guys apparently suggest you are superior but at least Bill first admitted that he rehashed some complete baloney though, sadly, his next "substantive" post indicated either that he misread the article he was commenting on or that the response had little substantive to say about it and then he bristles at a dismissive response. Fairweather on the other hand first insults the Gubernator for being infected with Democratness and then goes after J_B while he has contributed next to nothing of substance about anything. Bill at least leaves room for discussion while being superior. Fairweather none. Â I know: you guys will say "lighten up." But I think it'd be fun to actually talk politics some time. Have fun guys! Â Hey Matt, it was a joke in response to Bill quadruple posting after my slam on the idiot aka j_b for his 'triple post'. I'm sure Bill understands. I like Bill and agree with him on most things. Lighten up. Â As for why no one will talk politics with you: It may be because you're only willing to chat with the straw men you create. You don't really engage anyone real at all. Edited January 21, 2009 by Fairweather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This thread is a perfect example of why I've lost interest in Spray lately. You guys apparently suggest you are superior but at least Bill first admitted that he rehashed some complete baloney though, sadly, his next "substantive" post indicated either that he misread the article he was commenting on or that the response had little substantive to say about it and then he bristles at a dismissive response. Fairweather on the other hand first insults the Gubernator for being infected with Democratness and then goes after J_B while he has contributed next to nothing of substance about anything. Bill at least leaves room for discussion while being superior. Fairweather none. Â I know: you guys will say "lighten up." But I think it'd be fun to actually talk politics some time. Have fun guys! Â I don't know what else you expect from conservatives. It's not like they can use reality to support their point of view. Short of weaving, dodging, cherry picking facts, unsubstantiated ad-hominem attacks, ... what exactly do you want them to do? Â Read back what you just wrote, junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The problem with cretins is they never tire of showing the extent of their dimwittedness. By opposition to people like JayB who never fail to disappear when taken to task. Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hey thanks, Bill. I expected to come back and find more along the lines of "screw you - if you don't like it." And even in your own way, Fairweather, you too have acknowledged my point. Â (I should note,though, that the bit about my refusing to discuss anything is obvious horse dookie. Search "Bush" "Plame" "lies" "healthcare" or any number of topics and you'll quickly find literally dozens of threads where you've taken a narrow position and refused to discuss any other aspect of the topic at hand but sunk instead into dodge and insult while I've gone out and found new information to add and tried to circle back to drag you into a discussion.) Â Anyway, my point is that I'd like to see more substantive discussion. Like Bill, I actually learn stuff around here sometimes and I participate in these discussions not to see if I can outwit the other guy but because I'm genuinely interested in the discourse. Sometimes, as in this thread, it appears that many posters here have no interest in actual discussion and you two I noted here have a lot of company in this regard. Sexy Cocoa's post of a few weeks ago was right on. Â Anyway, I feel better now. I'll get down off my high horse. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 The problem with cretins is they never tire of showing the extent of their dimwittedness. By opposition to people like JayB who never fail to disappear when taken to task.  Well, this particular cretin was out kayaking and fly-fishing for a couple of days, so I hope that you'll pardon my absence.  It's not that I can't respond, it's just that it's tough to summon the energy to respond to what you've presented. It's difficult for me to discern a central argument to respond to in those posts, and it would take more energy than I have at the moment to crank out an argument to deal with each assertion that forms the basis of the sub-arguments to be found in each of the snippets, so I'll just have to put forward a few assertions of my own.  -Neither Grey Davis nor Swarzenegger have governed as "free market fundamentalists," and you'd be hard pressed to find such a creature amongst the Democratic majority that actually controls the legislative and regulatory output in Sacramento. If such a man exists, he must take direct personal inspiration from Sisyphus.  -California's state and local taxes comprise the sixth highest of any state, and California has been in or near the top-ten in this category since at least the 1970's. California residents pay over $5,000 per capita in state and local taxes - currently the 7th highest in the nation. The state currently ranks 47th out of 50 in terms of it's business tax climate (State, local, corporate, property, sales, and unemployment insurance taxes). If California is having trouble paying it's bills, its not because people and businesses are taxed too lightly.  -If you are arguing that national policy is to blame, you'll need to demonstrate that the said policies have adversely affected California in a manner independent of any particular legislative or regulatory policies that California has enacted or enforced.  -Your stance against outsourcing is really just an argument against the mutual advantages of trade. If you really think that this practice is harmful for the nation, and California in particular, why draw the line at jobs, and why demarcate the borders around the US? Per this line of reasoning, California would be better off if it mandated that all companies operating in California had to locate 100% of their operations in California, contract all of their services with California businesses, etc. If a business in Oregon offered them a better value for their money - tough. You could extend the same logic down to the region, city, and town level. Ditto for all raw materials, machinery, etc. Want to sell diamonds? Better find 'em in California, buddy...  Irrespective of what spending programs are desirable or useful from a particular point of view - states have to allocate scarce resources that have many alternative uses in a framework that's determined by the amount of taxable revenue generated by the citizens and businesses within the state. States have significantly less scope to finance their deficits than the Federal government. This is the reality. It's unfortunate that the folks running California seem to have forgotten this to the tune of ~40 Billion dollars that they have no idea how to finance. All states will have a hard time funding their budgets during this recession, but the fact that California's taking the worst hit suggests that the policy and regulatory framework in California may have something to do with it.  STP has pretty well spelled out the options that they have available to them now.      Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hey thanks, Bill. I expected to come back and find more along the lines of "screw you - if you don't like it." And even in your own way, Fairweather, you too have acknowledged my point. (I should note,though, that the bit about my refusing to discuss anything is obvious horse dookie. Search "Bush" "Plame" "lies" "healthcare" or any number of topics and you'll quickly find literally dozens of threads where you've taken a narrow position and refused to discuss any other aspect of the topic at hand but sunk instead into dodge and insult while I've gone out and found new information to add and tried to circle back to drag you into a discussion.)  Anyway, my point is that I'd like to see more substantive discussion. Like Bill, I actually learn stuff around here sometimes and I participate in these discussions not to see if I can outwit the other guy but because I'm genuinely interested in the discourse. Sometimes, as in this thread, it appears that many posters here have no interest in actual discussion and you two I noted here have a lot of company in this regard. Sexy Cocoa's post of a few weeks ago was right on.  Anyway, I feel better now. I'll get down off my high horse. Carry on.  I chalked the quiescence up to the possibility that a certain cadre of posters might be feeling adrift with all of the above topics losing their emotional resonance by the day.  I can't help but draw parallels to a man listening the broadcasts to his HAM-radio for a while, then staring blankly at the meticulously organized and copiously stocked shelves of canned food, ammo, and "Left Behind" series books in the underground shelter/compound/black-helicopter-surveillance-evasion-module he's constructed in his backyard at sometime around noon on January 1st, 2001.  BushHitlerMcFascistCheneyBloodForOilTotalitariConspiriBurton, we hardly knew ye....     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I chalked the quiescence up to the possibility that a certain cadre of posters might be feeling adrift with all of the above topics losing their emotional resonance by the day. Â I can't help but draw parallels to a man listening the broadcasts to his HAM-radio for a while, then staring blankly at the meticulously organized and copiously stocked shelves of canned food, ammo, and "Left Behind" series books in the underground shelter/compound/black-helicopter-surveillance-evasion-module he's constructed in his backyard at sometime around noon on January 1st, 2001. Â BushHitlerMcFascistCheneyBloodForOilTotalitariConspiriBurton, we hardly knew ye.... Â And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", you'll be worshiping GWB as a living god...just like Reagan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", I'll still be worshiping Vladimir Ilich as a living god... and spanking to him   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 DUDE, SPANK MATERIAL!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 I chalked the quiescence up to the possibility that a certain cadre of posters might be feeling adrift with all of the above topics losing their emotional resonance by the day. Â I can't help but draw parallels to a man listening the broadcasts to his HAM-radio for a while, then staring blankly at the meticulously organized and copiously stocked shelves of canned food, ammo, and "Left Behind" series books in the underground shelter/compound/black-helicopter-surveillance-evasion-module he's constructed in his backyard at sometime around noon on January 1st, 2001. Â BushHitlerMcFascistCheneyBloodForOilTotalitariConspiriBurton, we hardly knew ye.... Â And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", you'll be worshiping GWB as a living god...just like Reagan. Â Alas - here we have someone who will never lack for purpose, and will find perpetual solace in an everlasting contempt for all aspects of the existing order. Keep chasing the mirage of the Great Dorm-Room Utopia over the next dune, good man, no matter what ramparts reality throws in your way! 'Tis the land where Critical Studies majors in skinny emo-jeans, converse high-tops, and turtlenecks have arisen from behind their counters at the comic-book stores, cast their vintage-frame glasses aside, and seized the commanding heights...onward, onward...you can almost see it from here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", you'll be worshiping GWB as a living god...just like Reagan. Â Although the revolution lives on, bloodied but unbowed, Ronnie died a while ago.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Â And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", you'll be worshiping GWB as a living god...just like Reagan. Â Alas - here we have someone who will never lack for purpose, and will find perpetual solace in an everlasting contempt for all aspects of the existing order. Keep chasing the mirage of the Great Dorm-Room Utopia over the next dune, good man, no matter what ramparts reality throws in your way! 'Tis the land where Critical Studies majors in skinny emo-jeans, converse high-tops, and turtlenecks have arisen from behind their counters at the comic-book stores, cast their vintage-frame glasses aside, and seized the commanding heights...onward, onward...you can almost see it from here... Â You're a trip, man. Despite the overwhelming and spectacular failure that your positions on everything from militarily remaking the world safe for American capitalism to "fixing broken windows" have been, you're still (weakly) casting poo at those who've been (correctly) pointing out that your ideological emperor's been butt-assed naked for the last 25 years. It's weak dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hey! Look over there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 You're a trip, man. Despite the overwhelming and spectacular failure that your positions on everything from militarily remaking the world safe for American capitalism to "fixing broken windows" have been, you're still (weakly) casting poo at those who've been (correctly) pointing out that your ideological emperor's been butt-assed naked for the last 25 years. It's weak dude. Â This coming from a guy who still has wet dreams about an ideology that resulted in a body count exceeding 100 million and instituted the most severe repression of human rights in the last 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", you'll be worshiping GWB as a living god...just like Reagan. Â Although the revolution lives on, bloodied but unbowed.... Â Insert faces of Sarah Palin, Ashley Todd, and Joe the Plumber here. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", I'll still be worshiping Vladimir Ilich as a living god... and spanking to him   When are they gonna bury that sad fuck? I think it would be symbolic is so many ways. He doesn't look to have the hands of a worker--and is that nail polish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dude, get Photoshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 What is he doing with his right hand? And 20 or 30 years from now, when we're still cleaning up the toxic mess they've "Left Behind", I'll still be worshiping Vladimir Ilich as a living god... and spanking to him   When are they gonna bury that sad fuck? I think it would be symbolic is so many ways. He doesn't look to have the hands of a worker--and is that nail polish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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