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New topic on Israel

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:pagetop:

 

Yes, yes, that's the specifics. But what is the mission? Is it essentially to protect "American" business interests? To project "American" influence globally? Just what the hell does "American" mean?

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Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you with those "details." To put it bluntly for the CIA, it's to do whatever the President says.

 

As far as what is America, ask these guys . They've been running it since 1776.

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Looks like Obama made his picks for CIA director and for director of national intelligence.

Edited by STP

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A 01/06 press release by Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) discusses the corporate media propaganda on the israeli attack on Gaza ("Israel is only retaliating"):

 

The Blame Game in Gaza

Erasing Israeli actions to fault only Hamas

 

1/6/09

 

The Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip that began in late December have reportedly killed over 500 Palestinians, many of them civilians and children. As is often the case, U.S. corporate media's presentation of the events leading up to this dramatic escalation in violence have laid the blame for the violence mostly with Hamas, whose rocket attacks on Israel are often cited as the cause for the current Israeli attacks.

 

In many media discussions about the events that led to the fighting, emphasis is placed on Hamas' decision in late December to allow a cease-fire agreement with Israel to expire, or the group's failure to adequately suppress rocket attacks into Israel during the cease-fire.

 

[...]

 

These accounts fail on several grounds. For starters, the cease-fire agreement from June through mid-December was credited by many for ratcheting down the violence—rocket fire into Israel dropped significantly and claimed no Israeli lives during the truce. (Prior to that, rocket and mortar attacks since the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in late 2005 had killed 10 Israelis—theisraelproject.org.) After the cease-fire expired, rocket attacks increased, though no Israelis were killed until after the Israeli attacks were launched; four have been killed since then (Agence France-Presse, 1/6/09).

 

Interestingly, as the truce expired, the New York Times published an article (12/19/08) that began with a typical corporate media formulation—Palestinians are attacking, Israel is retaliating—before noting that Hamas was "largely successful" in curtailing rocket fire into Israel: "Hamas imposed its will and even imprisoned some of those who were firing rockets. Israeli and United Nations figures show that while more than 300 rockets were fired into Israel in May, 10 to 20 were fired in July, depending on who was counting and whether mortar rounds were included. In August, 10 to 30 were fired, and in September, 5 to 10."

 

The Times article, by Ethan Bronner, noted that what Hamas expected in return from the Israelis never arrived:

 

But the goods shipments, while up some 25 to 30 percent and including a mix of more items, never began to approach what Hamas thought it was going to get: a return to the 500 to 600 truckloads delivered daily before the closing, including appliances, construction materials and other goods essential for life beyond mere survival. Instead, the number of trucks increased to around 90 from around 70.

 

Bronner also added that "Israeli forces continued to attack Hamas and other militants in the West Bank, prompting Palestinian militants in Gaza to fire rockets," which produced Hamas response attacks. The Times continued:

 

While this back-and-forth did not topple the agreement, Israel’s decision in early November to destroy a tunnel Hamas had been digging near the border drove the cycle of violence to a much higher level. Israel says the tunnel could have been dug only for the purpose of trying to seize a soldier, like Cpl. Gilad Shalit, the Israeli held by Hamas for the past two and a half years. Israel’s attack on the tunnel killed six Hamas militants, and each side has stepped up attacks since.

 

This straightforward recitation of events is rarely heard in much of the rest of the media coverage of the violence in Gaza—including in the Times, since Israel began its full-scale assault. But for many consumers of U.S. media, history is made irrelevant; a Time magazine piece (1/12/09) began:

 

Two sounds dominate the lives of Israelis living near Gaza: the wail of a siren and, 25 seconds later, the whistling screech of an incoming rocket fired by the Palestinian militant group Hamas. That gives Israeli families just enough time to dive for cover—even as they pray the rocket will miss.

 

At 11:30 a.m. on December 27, a new sound filled the azure Mediterranean sky: the rolling boom of Israeli bombs and missiles slamming into Gaza.

 

Israeli airstrikes in Gaza are anything but "new," but presenting them as such—and pairing that presentation with an Israeli family sheltered against an incoming Hamas rocket—gives a wildly misleading impression of a conflict where the deaths and suffering are overwhelmingly on the Palestinian side.

 

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3667

 

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A must read 2-page summary of the Israel-Palestine conflict in the Guardian.

 

How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

 

Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

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If you read some of the accounts from those who are there (the ones getting thru Israeli censorship) it becomes clear that Israel is not really "targeting" anyone specifically so much as just blasting everyone they feel like blasting. Stay in your house and they blow it up, flee and they blow you up for "fleeing". Sounds like history repeating itself only the Jews get to be the Nazi's this time.

 

Interested parties should seek out indy media sources on teh web

 

eg http://electronicintifada.net/v2/diaries.shtml

Edited by dmuja

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On a side note, when Isreal pulled out their citizens from Gaza (2 years ago???)leaving everything to the Palestinians what happened? They looted, burned, and destroyed everything instead of moving their citizens into those compounds and using their greenhouses and fields to grow their own food.

 

Those fields and greenhosue stand abandoned, while they sit and complain about their "horrible situation"

 

Things they could have done to improove their situation they havent done.

 

The people elected a group of guys who demand the total destruction of a group of people(jews). That says they agree with them.

 

Hamas shoots from schools and hospitals. You expect Isreal not to attack back?

 

Hamas wants casaulties of children and women, to publisize to the world.

 

Never saw the world media in an uproar when Hamas was shooting missiles into Isreal and killing its citizens. But oh horrors, how dare Isreal shoot back. HYPOCRITS!

 

Brian

 

 

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And there's this..

 

Israeli forces moved 110 Palestinians to house then shelled it

 

Brian I empathize,

 

and although I am tempted to pull the "endless link post" game I am trying pretty hard to remain non-partisan in this case - so I'll post just the one.

 

My reasoning is that both sides can produce a long list of "legitimate" grievances and neither side can legitimately claim the moral high ground anymore- absolutely and unarguably NEITHER SIDE DESERVES PRAISE or kudos or anything good said about them. But their kids deserve a chance at a different future.

 

Eventually someone has to try another approach. Of coarse that would be qualified by the need for a common goal -something like "peace" for example. Often I have doubts that either side really wants even this much.

 

It's such a fucked up convoluted and totally exploited situation! Hopefully someone will take a risk and offer something new. That is the only way anything will change.

It probably won't happen while the fighting is going though.

 

Having said that, a child is a child is a child, and not one deserves what is happening to them right now.

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Personally, I believe that the focal point is closer to the West Bank area, specifically Jerusalem. Yeah, the action is on the outskirts but like the proverbial shell game you gotta keep your eye on the ball.

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and although I am tempted to pull the "endless link post" game I am trying pretty hard to remain non-partisan in this case - so I'll post just the one.

 

My reasoning is that both sides can produce a long list of "legitimate" grievances and neither side can legitimately claim the moral high ground anymore- absolutely and unarguably NEITHER SIDE DESERVES PRAISE or kudos or anything good said about them.

 

...And yet all of your condemnation to date is directed against Israel, and you have the gall to paste links to "electronic intifada"? Gimme a fucking break. At least be honest with yourself, man, and stop trying to pretend you're anything close to neutral regarding this ongoing conflict or the peoples involved.

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At least be honest with yourself, man, and stop trying to pretend you're anything close to neutral regarding this ongoing conflict or the peoples involved.

 

Your right, Im not "neutral" (meaning "I couldn't give a fuck"), Im pretty pissed at the IDF, at Israel and its supporters at the moment - slaughtered women and children tends to get me a little worked up. I also know that similar things have been done against Israel as well and of coarse the rocket attacks, so I understand the arguments behind their current actions.

 

But if slaughtering 4 year old girls is wrong then it is ALWAYS wrong! If you can look at the pics and videos and not intensely feel and know immediately that there is something deeply wrong about what Israel did then I think you've lost something inside yourself. Israel CHOOSES to deliberately target dozens of defenseless women and children just to kill 1 or 2 guys with a mortar if you believe their own claims. So be it, I believe THAT is morally, ethically, and strategically wrong and counter productive if you really are after "peace".

 

I "don't take sides in this" means I believe its not right for either side to attack the other again, again, and again. More and more violence and killing is absolutely NOT going to help either side in the longer run. What Israel is presently doing may reduce rocket attacks temporarily but it is simultaneously making MORE "TERRORIST". There is no doubt to me that what the IDF has accomplished tactically has come at the cost of Israels strategy and Israels "self defense" interests.

 

Not only that, but the U.S. being the biggest backer of Israel means that AL Qaeda gets gifted with more empathy and more recruits because of Israels actions. They have already exploited the situation and if you follow some of the suff being said around the WWweb its clear that Al Qaeda is getting a lot of (verbal anyway) support from people all over the world. This bodes bad for you and me personally.

 

I'll just touch on one other point for now - Israel has a very powerful military, support from the U.S. and in many many obvious ways the Palestinians are not even close to being on equal terms with Israel. Because of this I believe the onus is on Israel to shift their position and do more (constructive things) for the Palestinians. How about invading the strip next time and improving their meager infrastructure instead of slaughtering more people yet again? Of coarse this is impractical but its time to think out of the box.

 

 

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Israel: Boycott, Divest, Sanction

by Naomi Klein

 

It's time. Long past time. The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa.

 

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/09-0

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On a side note, when Isreal pulled out their citizens from Gaza (2 years ago???)leaving everything to the Palestinians what happened? They looted, burned, and destroyed everything instead of moving their citizens into those compounds and using their greenhouses and fields to grow their own food.

 

Those fields and greenhosue stand abandoned, while they sit and complain about their "horrible situation"

 

Things they could have done to improove their situation they havent done.

 

The people elected a group of guys who demand the total destruction of a group of people(jews). That says they agree with them.

 

Hamas shoots from schools and hospitals. You expect Isreal not to attack back?

 

Hamas wants casaulties of children and women, to publisize to the world.

 

Never saw the world media in an uproar when Hamas was shooting missiles into Isreal and killing its citizens. But oh horrors, how dare Isreal shoot back. HYPOCRITS!

 

Brian

 

 

This kind of 'historical snapshot' response is fairly typical of Americans, who tend to react to headlines as is, rather than try to understand the motivations (and factionalization) of both sides in this long and convoluted conflict. Perhaps its a form of salve on one's conscience when many innocent civilians are being carelessly slaughtered in a conflict between two grossly mismatched opponents; something America has quite a bit of previous experience with.

Edited by tvashtarkatena

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the anger and causes are irrelevant currently - the problems need to be fixed, and now...not that i'm in a position to do a damn thing about it. in the absence of a solution, i'd very much like my country not to sell weapons to either side though. :)

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