RuMR Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 John, serious question.. does this program address cragging stuff? Does it go into finger strength and what i'll call "cragging endurance"...obviously, its got the long haul stuff covered, but what about rockclimbing specific stuff? Obviously, any program that gets you stronger will have after effects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 John, serious question.. does this program address cragging stuff? Does it go into finger strength and what i'll call "cragging endurance"...obviously, its got the long haul stuff covered, but what about rockclimbing specific stuff? Obviously, any program that gets you stronger will have after effects... john is gone....will be back when the root canal spits him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ouch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ouch... hopefully not...hopefully his training has made him hard to kill: root canal: landing zone at the base of ham and eggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Oh, you're not talking dentistry, are you. Root canals don't hurt, abscessed teeth do. Looking forward to some stories and pictures when he gets back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 sweet! Pre-TR spray! hope to see some kewl AK pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) sweet! Pre-TR spray! hope to see some kewl AK pics. photos from AK usually suck Edited April 30, 2009 by powderhound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 John, serious question.. does this program address cragging stuff? Does it go into finger strength and what i'll call "cragging endurance"...obviously, its got the long haul stuff covered, but what about rockclimbing specific stuff? Obviously, any program that gets you stronger will have after effects... how would you know that "obviously, its got the long haul stuff covered" when you obviously have never checked the mtnathlete site out. If you had, then you would know the answer to the finger strength and cragging endurance questions. obviously lazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=22 here you go Rumor, fingerboarding for strength and systems boarding for PE with weight lifting thrown in to keep you moving. Anybody do these workouts? How much did you improve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=22 here you go Rumor, fingerboarding for strength and systems boarding for PE with weight lifting thrown in to keep you moving. Anybody do these workouts? How much did you improve? me improve? I improve through climbing not training. But these help me build a better base for when I can get in a climbing cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=22 here you go Rumor, fingerboarding for strength and systems boarding for PE with weight lifting thrown in to keep you moving. Anybody do these workouts? How much did you improve? thanks eric... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) John, serious question.. does this program address cragging stuff? Does it go into finger strength and what i'll call "cragging endurance"...obviously, its got the long haul stuff covered, but what about rockclimbing specific stuff? Obviously, any program that gets you stronger will have after effects... how would you know that "obviously, its got the long haul stuff covered" when you obviously have never checked the mtnathlete site out. If you had, then you would know the answer to the finger strength and cragging endurance questions. obviously lazy fern, shut the fuck up...John said to post questions to him...sure, i could spend an hour fishing through the site, or i could just ask...maybe my time would be better spent over there than here... obviously, Edited April 30, 2009 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 http://www.mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=22 here you go Rumor, fingerboarding for strength and systems boarding for PE with weight lifting thrown in to keep you moving. Anybody do these workouts? How much did you improve? me improve? I improve through climbing not training. But these help me build a better base for when I can get in a climbing cycle. that is understandable improving through climbing. But I am guessing there was a point in your climbing career when you didn't use the mtn athlete program maybe you did something else/maybe you just went to the climbing gym instead of hanging on a fingerboard and doing pushups afterwards. What I am wondering is if you noticed a significant difference. I have my own training program that I started last year and improved ~2 letters grades every 6-8 months for two cycles so far...but I don't think that I will continue to be able to make those gains...so I was just curious how this approached worked. People endorse it and says it works well but no one gives any quantifiable results like I redpoint 2 letter grades harder or I onsighted so much harder...I freed the U wall etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Eric, A change in two letter grades on routes is hard to quantify...do you notice a change in your bouldering level? Ie...you could just get into better shape and be able to send a harder route that is just more endurance. What i'm more curious about is has your ability to do harder moves been increased?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiente Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 A few thoughts. If you follow the workouts from mt.athlete you'll notice that most of the climbing specific workouts are endurance oriented. ie lots of movement done at low intensity. This will indeed get you fit, and helps you build up endurance for long pitches. However, this will not make you stronger. When I think stronger, I'm thinking what is the smallest possible hold you can hold onto for 2 seconds. Doing long traverses on big holds will not help in this area. For example, if your dream project has V8 crux move on it you'll never make it up that route unless you can pull V8. Doesn't matter how many laps you can do, you must be able to climb the hardest move on a climb in order to get up it. Now if you can do all the moves but get pumped when linking it together, then by all means, do some laps to work on endurance. I followed the Mt. Athlete workouts for a while this past Winter. I was using it more as base training getting back into climbing shaped. It worked well for that but it did not help increase my boulder or rope grades. Too much jug hauling. I guess you could try to perform the same workouts on crimps, but even for this your going to have to scale back to stay on the wall for 20 minutes in row as required for the system board workouts. My in-season workout is a mix of 4x4s (4 boulder hard problems, no rest between sets x4) and hang-board. I also like to do laps (or systems) but mixed with harder terminal boulder problems. Ex: do 1 hard problem at max effort, and go right into 5 minutes of traversing/system without letting my feet touch the ground. The idea for me is to simulate routes with hard cruxes followed by easier moves. Another twist on this do the five minutes of system and launch into a set of max effort boulder problems simulating crux moves right below the chains. Overall the best training is real climbing, much more effective then all this rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You said what i was trying to say better... yeah, i know about real climbing being the best...i'm kinda strapped for time right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks for the info Eldiente. As for bouldering improvement I went from v3 to v6 in less then a year. I haven't seemed to improve past this for awhile but also have only been bouldering 3 times outside since I sent my hardest problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Rumr I have also been strapped for time the last year and a half. Climbed less over that period then ever before but I also made the biggest gains. I think there are a couple reasons for this. One I started paying attention to what I was doing mid week with those 2 or 3 hours I could spend focused on climbing. 2. I have always been mostly instead in trad climbing and it turns out had really weak fingers so when I start hangboarding and focusing on power my ability shot up. 3. I have had less time so I have spent less time alpine climbing. Like instead of spending both days out climbing a mountain maybe I would just get a day or half a day in at index or one of the exits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm with Eric on this one. Seen my bouldering grades shoot up from V3/4 to V7 in the last year with the majority of the gains coming from less empahsis on trad and starting to really strengthen my fingers. Which conicidently has made trad climbing much easier and more enjoyable. Of course living on the icicle has helped the bouldering too... What has worked for me: Dropped lifting weights almost completely, use them now maybe once a month to strengthen my shoulders, and one-arm lat pulls, rows. Weighted fingerboard hangs 2X week. Campus 1x a week. Bouldering 3-5 days a week. Routes at least once a week. Weighted dips and pull-ups, 3 sets, max 6 reps per set, 1x week. Core: push-ups, leg lifts, planche progressions, lever progressions, hanging knee twist raises, weighted ball crunches, ball twists. Try to fit in 3x week but it does not always happen. Also for the first time ever i've been watching what i eat, run 45 min 4x a week, and have lost some weight. Sure does feel good to feel light. Spent the winter bouldering on a wickedly steep 40-45 degree small woody, which always provides a good smack down. I think the mountain athlete program could build up a good base climbing fitness, but it just doesn't focus enough on movement. I think endurance is best worked while pumped out of your mind trying to clip the chains, and if you work the power the endurance will come. Would be really interested to hear how other folks train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 i cut down from two bags of cheetos to one... man, glad i'm reading this stuff...makes me motivated to start scraping some time together... Also, my boy is completely shredding in comps and general climbing...kinda getting me stoked on this whole climbing thing again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 hey Sol... Say boo to Jens...tell him Drew hiked moby dick and ahab, and did blue suede shoes in three goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiente Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I haven't found a good way to simulate crack/trad climbing while indoors on the bouldering wall. Any suggestions? For a lot of long crack routes I find my upper arms, chest, and back get tired sooner than my forearms do. Especially true for routes with a lot laybacking or OW pitches. I would guess this because these muscles don't normally get worked during a normal bouldering session. To counter this I'll try to do a bit of lifting if I know I'll be doing a lot of crack climbing. Nothing too specific but some combination of; bench press, lat pulls, pull-ups, curls, reverse curls. push-press,dips and push-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 hey Sol,that is a lot of volume how intense are these workouts? Does that mean you are fingerboarding one day and bouldering the next? Or just doing both on the same day? How did you work up to this? What I do is always in flux but this is sort of a brake down of what I do now. And I will probably start doing more since it seems I am starting to get a hold of some of the things that have been sucking all my time for the last year... In winter I just train power, except I take 1 month to work general endurance. this means in winter I just cycle bouldering and using a fingerboard or overlap them slightly. Usually about a month of one and then a month of the other. I have had some tendentious problems in the past. So I don't do wieghted pullups or campusing. I'm trying to figure out a away to slowly add this to my workouts though...like small moves on smaller campus rungs but that also means buying a sg membership or getting a campus board in my apt. For fingerboard workouts- I do 5 sets 5 reps in a set usually 4 grips each set ends up taking about 1 minute. Afterwards I always rest 2 days, I tried not doing this or adding some other climbing in but then my fingers would start to ache and I would have to stop. I do them with some weighted but mostly just try to use smaller holds or less fingers, managing finger skin is key here. Now that we are "in season" I will do a month for power/finger strength training then a month of power endurance. For power endurance I have the luxury of being able to set a route on a 45 ft slightly overhanging wall so I set something that I can do all the moves on but just barely and work that. For core my warm up for the hangboard is L pullups and I do some L sits during my pe cycle. But I can't honestly think of a route I failed to do because of core strength. And I don't do to much running but I live in the city and don't have a car so I bike to work, and everywhere else. I try to do a good stretching session 1-2x a week to. This really helps with high stepping, mantels, and stemming but so does being stronger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanb Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Damn Sol, that is a training routine. How much weight, what edges and grips do you use for the various hangs and pulls? I've gotten serious about training the last couple of years, focusing mostly on fingers and have also seen hugh gains (sending index 11's and starting to think about harder stuff, bouldering 3-4 grades harder then i was). My routine is not very organized, I try and follow what I'm psyched on each week (either PE or P) and do at least one pure power (hangboard) work out every week. Basically I do: 1 yoga class a week taught by a climber/skier + additional light yoga every day with a focus on pushing and opposition to climbing movements. Bike commute 2-5 days a week (10 miles round trip). Climb outside 1-2 days a week depending on weekend weather (either bouldering or routes at index recently but hopping to start throwing WA pass in the mix and get in some after work sessions in the sky valley thanks to the long days) 2-3 midweek sessions preceded by long warm up traverses and some bouldering either at SG or the UW rock. Breaks down as follows: Hang board 1-3 days a week (Usually 3 sets of 5x~8 seconds four finger open handed on the small campus edges, and 1-3 sets each using each three finger grip and the two stronger 2 finger grips on the large and medium edges). Frenchies and front levers 1-2 times a week (my elbows can't take more). The last month or so I have started to focus more on PE during (2-3) midweek sessions, first using steep traverses and foot on campusing at stone gardens and more recently doing traverses and link ups at the UW rock...PE really kills me and i've had to cut down to one light hang boarding session a week, loose the frenchies and watch the elbows but am feeling really strong and psyched for this season. I also feel like I end up taking at least 2 real rest days (no climbing, maybe bike commute) a week when i feel i need them, usually monday and friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTM Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I'm going to try to follow this routine from Sonnie Trotter and see if it helps: http://sonnietrotter.com/2009/05/01/xfittoughcowboy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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