Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
Peter_Puget

A view from Europe

Recommended Posts

So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn...

 

It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong.

 

On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience.

 

Thomas D. Williams

Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn...

 

It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong.

 

On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience.

 

Thomas D. Williams

Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!SOME "BIG" ISSUES!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter- do us all a favor and crawl back to the primordial slime cave with Palin and the Pope. The adults have real work to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peter- do us all a favor and crawl back to the primordial slime cave with Palin and the Pope. The adults have real work to do.

 

Yeah, I'd say the biggest 'moral issue' the Vatican faces right now involves little boys, not grown black men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of Europe is ecstatic about Obama's victory and PP manages to find a completely different spin on the whole thing.

 

So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn...

 

Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right.

 

You're becoming a denial comedy Peter.

 

 

Edited by General Zod

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong.

 

On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience.

 

Thomas D. Williams

Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News

Since when does it take this many words to say that the masses are mostly mindless, but are guilty anyway and will be punished somehow for swinging away from this elitist's personal moral views?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn...

 

It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong.

 

On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience.

 

Thomas D. Williams

Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News

 

Then by that philosophy, anybody who voted for George W. Bush in 2004 is responsible for the public deaths and American deaths in the ongoing Iraq conflict.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn...

 

It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong.

 

On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience.

 

Thomas D. Williams

Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News

 

peter, why should anyone care what this apologist for the catholic church has to say?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to a Catholic school but wasn't probed,the Nuns use to send me the Fathers office alot but i guss my ass wasn't that great! The Nuns were badass with a ruler,i've had a few explode across me back! I use to think they bought them by the gross.

Edited by pc313

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since when has the Vatican been the representative expression of the Europeans?

 

Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,”

 

:lmao:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since when does it take this many words to say that the masses are mostly mindless, but are guilty anyway and will be punished somehow for swinging away from this elitist's personal moral views?

 

DOUCHE BAG ALERT! DOUCHE BAG ALERT! EAT A DICK ASSWIPE_JUSTIN!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another view from Europe:

 

A family friend called from Paris the other night, and said people were partying in the streets until 7 AM...because Obama won.

 

That concluded our NOT narrow-minded view of the moment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back a number of years ago I remember telling people I talked to in France, "Le Bush il est tres mal," or, "Je n'aime pas le Bush."

 

I should take a trip to France soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My sister called from Japan, and told me that, while the more subdued Japanese weren't out in the streets, she got many, many congratulations on the election. People there are very happy with this long awaited sea change.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×