Ski instructor needed - Recommendations welcome

[Panos]

Hey folks,

 

Recommendations welcome for a great ski instructor.

 

I know, this is a pretty early talk about skiing... I did great progress last year as a true beginner, finally skiing black diamonds pretty confidently, and had some powder back country adventures too. But I have learned mostly from books and without the watchfull eye of a good instructor I may develop "bad habbits", or so I was told.

 

This season I will stick to Alpental a lot and I am looking for a really good instructor who will introduce me to all-terrain skiing. I am looking for someone who will teach me the HOWs and the WHYs instead of his/her rigid recipe. Someone who understands well the physics of the sport and has a friendly personality.

 

Cheers, Ibex

 

Edited November 6, 2008 by Panos

[DPS]

Martin Volken at Pro Ski in North Bend perhaps.

[Panos]

Man, yes these guys are real professionals at Pro Ski. But who can pay hundreds of dollars for private skiing instruction? On the top, the idea of the guiding business to sell "trips" to consumers finds me very much against. You touched a very sensitive topic: for me the mountains are there to be enjoyed with solid friends or solo, and with someone who gets paid for his/her services there is no such thing as true friendship, period. Of course you will ask me: "why the hell you are asking for an instructor then"? My answer: I do not know! I hope to find someone who will act as a ski mentor rather than a professional who will see me as a client and put a hand in my pocket before we even meet. Thank you for your recommendation though. I have seen Martin's book and I found it quite useful.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Panos

[DPS]

I am sorry I misunderstood your post.

[DirtyHarry]

You are one weird dude Panos.

[alpinemorg]

rather than a professional who will see me as a client and put a hand in my pocket before we even meet.

 

Harsh man! You make earning a living sound so sinister.

[jon]

So if I understand you correctly you would rather inconvenience someone with your inability to ski and waste a ton of money going up time after time to a lift area to flounder around then pay a qualified instructor who's job it is to ski to teach you how to competently ski in a couple of lesson? Interesting logic.

 

Since you looked at Martin's book, maybe you glossed over something that he reiterates time and time again; that the ability to travel safely in the backcountry is largely based on your ability to actually ski, which requires 10's of thousands of vertical feet. Not hours, feet. I've been skiing for 20+ years and I can do as much vertical in a resort in a day that could take someone like you 5+ days. I got there from skiing with people better then me (in my case, Olympians) and having good instructors and being willing to pay for them. I'll still pay for a lesson if I feel someone has something to offer me.

 

I've met Martin and Scott a few times and they are good guys, and judging by their book, know their shit. Matt Schonwald, who works for Mountain Madness, is also a really nice guy and full of stoke. He used to ski with Coombs so I'm sure he's moved past the wedge christy.

[hafilax]

Take a 1/2 day group lesson or something like that. The instructor will point out any bad habits. If you don't have any then you know you're on the right track. Try to find some people that are enough better than you that you can watch them and ask questions but not so much better that they'll be bored.

 

When I'm teaching friends I give them an hour of my day and then I take off. It gives me enough time to point out some things to work on on their own.

 

If you really want to short cut the learning curve then you're going to have to luck out and find a good soul to mentor you or invest some money.

[Mtguide]

While it might seem like a good idea to find a friend/mentor to teach you skiing, there are a number of excellent reasons why this is NOT such a great idea. While you may find a friend who's a truly fantastic skier, they may or may not be any good as an instructor. Too often issues of ego, lack of training, and an inability to properly evaluate and adjust instruction to the level you're at in your skills, may result in little or no progress, or even in teaching you exactly the wrong things for what you need to be doing for your own improvement.

 

Certified professional ski instructors have been rigorously trained and tested, and have the people skills and technical skills to understand the myriad of difficulties and challenges facing students of all ages and physical abilities, and although they may seem expensive, for my money they are well worth every last nickel in saving you unnecessary time, effort, and even potential injury, spent in your re-inventing the wheel just because you wanted to save a few bucks.

 

Also, it's not necessary to spend hundreds of dollars. Most instructors prefer to have you take a lesson for a morning or afternoon, and then go skiing 3 or 4 times (by YOURSELF, I might add-to avoid so-called "friends" and well-intentioned but misguided "mentors" from undoing everything your professional instructor has so carefully and patiently shown you) in order to digest and really get the "feel" of what you've covered in your lesson. It doesn't all happen right there in the lesson. You don't ski with an instructor for two hours and then go out conquer the mountain. A good way to do it is to take a lesson at the beginning of the season,then go skiing by yourself several times, take another lesson a couple of weeks later, go skiing several times by yourself again, take another lesson, etc. right on throught the whole season. Sure, you'll be spending most of your season skiing by yourself, but you'll be able to really focus on the technique and feel of evrything you're learning, without the unnecessary chatter and distraction- it's really like a meditation, a practice, and as you gain and progress in skill, technique, strength, balance, timing, and rythm, and really begin to flow, you'll discover an inner quiet and freedom in motion unlike anything else you've ever experienced. This is what skiing is really all about, and it is far,far, beyond price. And there are many really fine skiers who continue, even after many years of skiing, to take a lesson or two every season, because there are always new things being developed and discovered, it never ends. The best skiers are those who are always growing. And the best instructors are living examples of that.

 

It's said that, along the way to really becoming proficient at any one of the three main types of skiing (alpine, telemark, or x-c) you'll fall about a thousand times. You have a lot of face-plants and "yard sales" ahead of you, and a ton of fun and good times with great friends in great mountains, if you do it right, from the beginning. As the old Chinese proverb goes, "It is easier to repair the beginning, than the end." Just as the best quality climbing harness is truly cheap at the price, compared to the value of your life, so too is the money spent on the very best instruction you can afford, for what can be a long and fulfilling lifetime of "freedom of the steeps". After all, you've already spent hundreds of dollars on skis, boots poles, clothing, lift tickets, gas, etc.,--and, after all that investment, now you want to skimp on instruction, the very thing that will help you to make real the true value of that investment? That's just crazy, because without the ability to use all that stuff, that's all you have-just a pile of ski gear-stuff.

 

You can actually do fine by skimping on the gear-I've never seen a pair of skis that wouldn't slide downhill in you point 'em that way- (you should have seen the short film some years ago at the Banff Mountain Film Festival about the kids at an orphanage in northern India, skiing on a rope tow with skis made of old wooden planks with scraps of sheet metal and tin cans nailed to the bottom-they were having the time of their lives, and some of them were really pretty good skiers)-and you sure as hell don't need fancy clothing or the latest boots.etc.--but you really DO need the best instruction you can find. And you know what? Even though you're paying them for it, your instructor can often become one of your finest friends, because they once stood right where you are standing now, with everything to learn, and nowhwere to go but up--They Have Been There- and they also had to put in the time and effort and take the thousands of falls, to do what they do now. And they admire and respect you for being there, standing in front of them on that slope, ready to learn, ready to go, and being willing to pay them for their hard-won knowledge and experience, in a honorable exchange, to enter the fellowship of skiers, because they know what it takes. Maybe some people find that a racket or a scam, but I can't think of any money I've spent that was more worth it. Most of the instructors I've met are just great, great people, and they can open the door for you time and time again, to a whole new world. You would be doing yourself a great disservice to let a few bucks come between you and that expansion of your life, believe me.

 

Finally, a couple of really good, essential books:

 

Ski The Whole Mountain-by Eric and Rob Deslauriers,

 

and, Breakthrough On Skis-by Lito Tejada-Flores.

 

Best of luck, and great skiing!

 

 

[hafilax]

Mtguide, that's a little over the top. People learn how to ski just fine without a single day of instruction. I agree that lessons can be a great thing but it's not for everybody.

[DirtyHarry]

All you need to know is Pizza and Fries. Pizza and Fries.

[chris]

Learning to ski without professional instruction takes longer. Simple.

I've skied for more than 30 years and I still hire a professional ski instructor for a few lessons a year. Until this year - I finally decided to become a ski instructor instead!

I'm still amazed that people look for professional instruction or guiding but insist on paying those people less than a mechanic for their time.

[hafilax]

That's not a fair comparison. Skiing is a luxury. Most people rely on their vehicle for their wellbeing. How much training do you need to become a ski instructor? A two week course? How much training to be a mechanic? Ski instructors that have been at it for a while get some hefty tips (in Whistler at least).

 

From what I've seen, people that have taken too many lessons ski like robots. If that's what you want to do, great. I just don't think it's the be all and end all solution to learning to ski.

[Panos]

People learn how to ski just fine without a single day of instruction. I agree that lessons can be a great thing but it's not for everybody.

 

Hafilax, thank you for pointing that out loud.

 

And you guys,

 

Let me clarify something: paying for one 2-hour lesson every month with a ski instructor who really understands what he/she is talking about is something that I would do very happily, and I understand that it can be truly helpful.

 

What exactly I am "against" (as a matter of personal preference, not judging anybody) is the new trend to sell and buy experiences beyond instructional lessons. Namely, when one pays to get something done guided. I have seen clients dragged up on big walls almost like they were haul bags, and they told me that it was "a steep learning curve" for them. Enough! It was not the same when Mummery was putting on his climbs.

 

Whatever progress I have made in skiing it has been 95% through reading good books (such as: The Skier's Edge and The All Mountain Skier), watching videos (Tejada Flores has made some good ones) and most-most importantly skiing by myself (regardless if I am with others) countless hours, everytime trying something different, going faster or steeper and getting more confident step-by-step while always trying to understand the dynamics of the sport. Not only the how but also the why, based on physics. And I went a long way this way, skiing down all the named lines at Alpental after only 15 days of skiing (never skied before).

 

When an instructor says, for example, "keep your hands at the front of your body" but he cannot explain convincingly why this is best, then it is a waste of money in my way of thinking. No-instructor is sometimes better than a proclaimed qualified instructor.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Panos

[hafilax]

A thought just occurred to me. You can probably do a lot with a video camera and some self analysis if you really understand what the books and videos are trying to tell you.

 

I've always wondered what I look like skiing and snowboarding. I would love to get my hands on a video camera this winter. Especially a POV setup so I can scare my parents.

[Cobra_Commander]

Man if you are skiing blacks at the resort but want to learn to ski ungroomed better...then....don't ski on the groomed stuff as much as possible, it's that simple. Just stay on the edges. Ski the crappy stuff and try to stay on your feet. Take the line through the trees, or head up to Alpental when it's really nuking. You'll learn a ton this way, and it's just the price of a lift ticket. It's all about logging mileage on crappy and/or deep snow.

 

You sound like you are past the point where a lesson is going to improve you dramatically (though that is hard to say without seeing what you call skiing). Unless you totally suck and were squiggling down the blacks, you just need to put on a ton of mileage on ungroomed snow at resorts, or on short tours. I recommend at resorts since you can put a ton of laps on quick. It's all about attitude and attacking the slope in a controlled way.

 

Also, locate the really good skiers and try to follow them (within reason). See how they approach runs with fluidity and confidence. Fall a lot. Hope that helps.

[Panos]

Jon wrote: So if I understand you correctly you would rather inconvenience someone with your inability to ski and waste a ton of money going up time after time to a lift area to flounder around then pay a qualified instructor who's job it is to ski to teach you how to competently ski in a couple of lesson?

You do not at all, I am sorry.

 

Hafilax wrote: You can probably do a lot with a video camera and some self analysis if you really understand what the books and videos are trying to tell you.

I have thought about this myself There is no harm trying...

 

Cobra_Commander wrote: Hope that helps.

I can tell you it does. The secret is not to learn fast but to try avoiding the "intermediate rut". By the way, the term intermediate is very subjective. It all depends on how far one is aiming for. In terms of skiing, so far I have only opened my eyes - I am not saying that I am even close to what I consider as intermediate.

 

Alpinemorg wrote: Harsh man! You make earning a living sound so sinister.

You are right man. But this was not a comment on the morality of the professional. It has to do rather with my attitude about climbing. How would you feel if you approach a nice girl and she asks for money before you kiss! If you are an old school mountaineer (in the way that Rebuffat was) you will run away. That is all.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Panos

[denalidave]

My 2cents... I grew up in Utah and started skiing when I moved there in 5th grade. My mom gave me money for ski lessons but my friends told me to save the dough and they would teach me. Most of them were already pretty good skiers and very poor instructors. I ended up not properly learning as I was just trying to keep up with them on all the black diamonds. Years later, I finally was able to overcome most of my bad habits when I spent a few winters skiing every day and really working on my technique. I never did pay for a lesson but would get some good pointers and critique from some buddies that were instructors. Bottom line, get the lessons if you can. If you can't, or have a personal moral objection to the idea of paying for lessons, suck up to some good skiers and get all the training videos you can find. Most of all, practice, practice, practice, just like anything else. Strength condition goes a long way too. Plus, the great gear out nowadays can make almost anyone a pretty good skier once you learn the basic fundamentals of carving turns. When I was learning as a kid, we had 2x4's and duct tape and it was uphill in 5' of snow all the time!

[alpinemorg]

You are right man. But this was not a comment on the morality of the professional. It has to do rather with my attitude about climbing. How would you feel if you approach a nice girl and she asks for money before you kiss! If you are an old school mountaineer (in the way that Rebuffat was) you will run away. That is all.

Well if she's a professional "lady" I would expect that as I'm prepared to pay her for an experience, which is what I'm doing if I'm looking for knowledge and/or experience from a professional guide or instructor.

 

Though a true lover of the mountains, Rebuffat was also a film star and mountain guide.

 

Sadly...that is what happens to me before kisses from a nice girl, she's called my wife :-D.

[Panos]

Panos wrote: ...a professional who will see me as a client and put a hand in my pocket before we even meet.

 

Alpinemorg,

I accept that the above comment of mine was not fair. Apologies to all professional instructors. I did not mean it that way.

 

I have to say that -understandably- I did not get any further recommendations for professional instructors. A few 2-hour lessons at Alpental would be great by somebody who teaches up-to-date PSIA technique and knows what he/she is talking about. Until I find this individual I will not stay at home! White flakes are falling...

Edited November 6, 2008 by Panos

[poorclimber]

Shop around. Ski positions change fairly regularly and a great instructor someone had last year may no longer be at alpental (since you don't seem to want to go with a professional who is not employed by an area). The good instructors are out there, but they may be at stevens or crystal or heaven forbid the main summit and whatever they are calling those areas now.

[Jens]

I was a professional ski instructor for eight years and think your idea is a good one. You'll get more out of one or two private lessons than you would from a whole series of adult group lessons.

Video analysis is a wonderful tool for improving. Definitely put a lot of time in during early winter lift skiing. You'll get a ton of vertical in. My brother Hans and I riding high speed quads at Whistler on full alpine gear from open to close will get more vertical in one day than the majority of the cascade rando and tele backcountry guys get in a whole season.

If you are looking to go on the cheap, hang out at one of bars at a ski area and make a deal with an instructor who is away from his home area.

good luck.

[JoeMack]

Take the line through the trees

 

No. If you don't know what you're doing and have to side slip or flounder, stay out of the trees. Please. Don't ruin it for people who know what they're doing.

[Panos]

Surely man, I will first learn how to make short linked turns at the open steeps and the bumps before I venture into the trees. Yet, high-speed collision with a conifer is top in the list of what I want to accomplish.

 

Jens, thanks for your valuable advice. I will definitely try some shots with my Olympus at the video mode. I am also thinking of putting a sign at the back of my jacket:

 

Good Instructor Needed.

Be blond, young and female

is preferred but not required.

2hrs $100

 

Edited November 8, 2008 by Panos

[Serenity]

Everything you'll ever need to know about how to ski can be ascertained by repeatedly watching 'Hot Dog', 'Alpine Extreme', and 'There's Something About McConkey'.