Obama IS a socialist

[Fairweather]

The 'vast majority' of Americans who consider FDR a great president probably could not tell you much about him aside from his stand against Hitler and Tojo--and social security. They could probably tell you about his fireside chats, but none of the content. I don't consider FDR a bad president, but his court-stacking scheme was as close to a dictatorial grab as any president has ever come. Were it not for this, he would likely be up on Mount Rushmore--along with my beloved TR. Do you disagree? I don't consider my opinion any more valid than anyone elses, but I'm willing to bet that, like yours, it is more informed than most. As far as checks and balances; I think the supreme court was 7/9 conservative--or anti FDR at least. The court we have now can be considered 5/4 in either direction, IMO.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Fairweather

[ivan]

The 'vast majority' of Americans who consider FDR a great president probably could not tell you much about him aside from his stand against Hitler and Tojo--and social security. They could probably tell you about his fireside chats, but none of the content. I don't consider FDR a bad president, but his court-stacking scheme was as close to a dictatorial grab as any president has ever come. Were it not for this, he would likely be up on Mount Rushmore--along with my beloved TR. Do you disagree? I don't consider my opinion any more valid than anyone elses, but I'm willing to bet that, like yours, it is more informed than most. As far as checks and balances; I think the supreme court was 7/9 conservative--or anti FDR at least. The court we have now can be considered 5/4 in either direction, IMO.

you'll note i pointedly said "literate americans" in my original post b/c, as a teacher, i can tell you the "majority of americans" don't know a fucking thing about fdr

 

you say you don't think fdr was a bad president, so how about you go one teensy-bit further and admit that a socialist can be a fine president, eh, so we can set this whole thread ta bed?

 

i can't really fault fdr for trying to pack the courts - they were in his way, and i think he genuinely believed in what he was doing - i'm glad he was stopped, and it's a testament to our constitutional system, yes? i assume you accept lincoln into the pantheon of american heroes though - wasn't he equally overboard as fdr in his eradication of habeaus corpus and contemplation of jailing the chief justice of the supreme court?

[Fairweather]

I think they are both overrated--and I wish more Americans knew about their constitutional problems. But I don't consider either of them "bad presidents". Ditto, Thomas Jefferson. IMO, Washington and Teddy are the only two presidents who belong up there. Along with Alexander Hamilton.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Fairweather

[ivan]

I think they are both overrated--and I wish more Americans knew about their constitutional problems. But I don't consider either of them "bad presidents". Ditto, Thomas Jefferson. IMO, Washington and Teddy are the only two presidents who belong up there. Along with Alexander Hamilton.

so your list of "good" presidents includes just 2 of the 43 presidents?

 

washington is an easy choice of course - he does seem an extraordinary man, though he was granted so much deference by his contemporaries that he's pretty damn unfair to compare to any of the other poor bastards who had to stomach the slings and arrows of their opponents - his greatest accomplishment, in hindsight, was establishing a tradition in the executive branch of limiting their terms

 

roosevelt - okay, a fine guy and certainly tough - didn't he steal all of the thunder for his seminal accomplishment from black soldiers though? didn't he rise to office without a public vote? didn't he also defy constitutional checks and balances (for example, with the "great white fleet?") didn't he unabashedly steal from columbia?

[ivan]

oh yeah, and i forget to remark:

 

lincoln was over-rated? uh, okay. you and who else, beside a couple of skin-heads would possibly say that? (this from a damned redneck southerner, raised literally in the ashes of the confederacy?)

[tvashtarkatena]

Lincoln served the most dismal presidency in our history. There are few men in history who could have done what he did to hold the Union together under such horrendous circumstances. Truly a great man.

 

FDR pulled us from the worst depression in our history, then commanded our forces to victory in two simultaneous world wars. Incredible.

 

TR was a true renaissance man; a gifted writer, scholar, athlete, and naturalist. He was one of the first true champions of social and economic justice (redistribution of wealth, as it's now called), and conservation. In other words, he was the exact opposite of a contemporary Republican. He did share one, and only one, trait with today's Republicans, however: he was an avid war monger. Roosevelt loved war and believed a necessary part of maintaining our national spirit. During his second unsuccessful run at the presidency, this trait took over the man, transforming him into an embarrassing characature of his former self; shrill, xenophobic, and blatantly racist. Fortunately, he was handily defeated.

Edited November 2, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[glassgowkiss]

is it your fat ass?

if it's your pic, you should get the shit kicked out of your fat, lazy as a potential drag on healthcare! want to change things- start with yourself chub.

 

Really? Who's gonna do the shit kickin'? You?

hey facko, face it, you are fat and unfit. that's the end of the story. when did you see the inside of the gym? in high school, judging from the picture. keep it up and nobody will have to kick you to the curb, as you'll become another pathetic statistic of cva or ami.

[tvashtarkatena]

Oh, I almost forgot. FW fucks his own dog.

[pc313]

MY FRIENDS, PLEASE HELP FAIRWEATHER AND THE RICH,I MEAN THE WHITE, OR RIGHT STAY IN CONTROL, WITH YOUR HELP WE CAN GIVE ANOTHER TEN TRILLION IN THE NEXT 4 YEARS TO THE 1% AND FUCK THE POOR 99% AND BLAME IT ON THE LEFT,WHO KNOWS WE COULD START ANOTHER WAR AND START THE DRAFT AGAIN,GOOD TIMES,AND IT WILL GIVE THE POOR JOBS,HA HA!! THANKS JOHN MACCAIN AND FRIENDS.

 

 

[billcoe]

Prole, this only re-enforces how pointless spraying on the internet is. There is no reason to for me to feel shame. None.

 

I remember arguing your point back when I was 16 to my neighbor, Al Purdy, a WW2 vet, he wasn't able to change my opinion then, only time and knowledge did. You won't change my mind on this and I won't yours....for now. Just rest assured that you truly are wrong and lets leave it at that.

 

Please bring it up if you ever see me FTF and lets have the full discussion.

 

Later!

 

[Fairweather]

you should get the shit kicked out of your fat, lazy ass

 

 

hey facko, face it, you are fat and unfit. that's the end of the story. when did you see the inside of the gym? in high school, judging from the picture. keep it up and nobody will have to kick you to the curb, as you'll become another pathetic statistic of cva or ami.

 

Facko? WTF is that? Since the mods here seem to give you free reign to physically threaten people, here's back at you: I hope you're talking about kicking my ass metaphorically, because, like GW, I believe in preemption and will hunt your scrawny ass down. Comprendes? One good thing about an Obama presidency? He'll scrap the idiotic idea that we should offer military support/missiles to Poland and other ass-backward Soviet republics. Fuck em. And fuck you.

[Fairweather]

i can't really fault fdr for trying to pack the courts - they were in his way, and i think he genuinely believed in what he was doing -

 

So did Pal Pot, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Consuelo Princep, King Henry VIII, The Catholic Church, etc, etc, etc. This belief in ideals and self doesn't make the pursuit of power or the always-horrific outcomes admirable.

 

I truly do appreciate the conversation you've offered, but being the object of a dogpile and dealing with threats from GGK is getting old. Maybe I'll see you down at Hood soon. November is calling and after 44 times up that cone it's the only month of the year I haven't visited the top. I'm outta here for now.

[dougd]

I cannot imagine climbing a mountain so many times. Even Mt Hood. You must have done it from every possible direction then?

 

I have climbed it three times and that's most probably it for me.

 

Cooper Spur might be fun with the right people tho...

 

hmmm

[glassgowkiss]

move there with all the rest of racist pigs

talking about pigs.....

contrary to your statement he announced even tighter military and economic cooperation with the countries of the former soviet block. very wise, considering where the real threat is from russia. of course your dumb intellect can't comprehend these issues.

[prole]

Prole, this only re-enforces how pointless spraying on the internet is. There is no reason to for me to feel shame. None.

 

I remember arguing your point back when I was 16 to my neighbor, Al Purdy, a WW2 vet, he wasn't able to change my opinion then, only time and knowledge did. You won't change my mind on this and I won't yours....for now. Just rest assured that you truly are wrong and lets leave it at that.

 

Please bring it up if you ever see me FTF and lets have the full discussion.

 

Later!

 

 

Thanks for the near-incoherent marshmallow of a response. Whatever.

[pc313]

I climbed the hogs back in November 2003,out of 15 times on Hood it was the only time i had the summit all to myself and no one else below me,downed two beers and watched the sunrise! plan to do it again late November on a week day weather permitting.

[ivan]

hood's an easy mtn to climb a thousand times - a very solid workout to stay in shape, and routes like the reid, cooper spur and n face are very hard to get bored with (especially when soloing)

 

so maybe my point, fw, given your long list of other folks who let their ideals carry them beyond reasonable limits, is that it is our nature to go beyond the pale when we think we're right - it would then be useless to criticize folks for acting that way - that's why we build in the institutional checks - the bottom line, given the subject of the thread, is that our nation can have a socialist leader and actually end up the better for it

[glassgowkiss]

the point is Obamas plan is not socialism. i grew up in a socialist/communist country. and contrary to popular beliefs socialism/communism is about control, dominance and exploitation of the general public. Believe or not the last crew brought this country to the brink of this dreadful system and now they are trying to claim it's not them who are the threat! Suspending constitutional right in the name of some "greater good" and deregulations benefiting a few and charging the cost of the rescue to the public is not the way to go. it's like bringing a biting pitbull to the school yard and acting surprised when kids are bitten. If you have a biting dog you muzzle it. and wrapping yourself in a flag is a complete bullshit. this crew was wrong from day one and it's time to end this direction once and for all.

[Greta]

the point is Obamas plan is not socialism. i grew up in a socialist/communist country. and contrary to popular beliefs socialism/communism is about control, dominance and exploitation of the general public. Believe or not the last crew brought this country to the brink of this dreadful system and now they are trying to claim it's not them who are the threat! Suspending constitutional right in the name of some "greater good" and deregulations benefiting a few and charging the cost of the rescue to the public is not the way to go. it's like bringing a biting pitbull to the school yard and acting surprised when kids are bitten. If you have a biting dog you muzzle it. and wrapping yourself in a flag is a complete bullshit. this crew was wrong from day one and it's time to end this direction once and for all.

 

Word.

[pc313]

If i had fuck you money i would vote Republican,for they are the party of the haves and have mores,but i don't have fuck you money so for the last 32 years i've voted democrat! but if i win lotto all bets are off,so i vote by mail,play lotto only when its big and should be climbing on Tuesday and Wednesday. Good luck!!

Edited November 3, 2008 by pc313

[STP]

the point is Obamas plan is not socialism. i grew up in a socialist/communist country. and contrary to popular beliefs socialism/communism is about control, dominance and exploitation of the general public. Believe or not the last crew brought this country to the brink of this dreadful system and now they are trying to claim it's not them who are the threat! Suspending constitutional right in the name of some "greater good" and deregulations benefiting a few and charging the cost of the rescue to the public is not the way to go. it's like bringing a biting pitbull to the school yard and acting surprised when kids are bitten. If you have a biting dog you muzzle it. and wrapping yourself in a flag is a complete bullshit. this crew was wrong from day one and it's time to end this direction once and for all.

 

So Obama will reject the added powers gained by the Executive Branch during the Clinton and Bush presidencies? He's going to reverse the course of government?

 

His subsequent change of heart on FISA allowing telecom immunity argues against it ( Obama's support for the FISA "compromise").

[glassgowkiss]

i don't know what in reality he is going to do. the point is he was one of the very few voting against this stupid war. lets' hope that new attorney general will start handing subpoenas.