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Bad rock? Good rock?

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I‘ve seen a couple of postings here lately that refer to the rock quality on a route as really bad, when in my opinion its just average. What’s up with that? Are people’s perceptions being scewed by too much cragging or is it because we’re mostly doing heavy traffic rock routes, like the Becky route on L.B . Specifically, a recent post referred to the rock on Torment as being shitty, I found it average for the Cascades. A couple of three weeks ago P. Pusher, referred to the west ridge of Sherpa as looser than a cheap hooker, I thought the rock on that route was typical of the granite in the Stuart range, quite good actually.

Not all the rock measures up to Prussik peak or the North ridge of Stuart, but those are 10’s on a ten point scale. Most routes have some loose rock that makes them average, for example Torment, Black peak or even Goode. I wouldn’t say the rock on these routes is bad, just average, and rock quality would be no reason to forgo climbing these routes.

Are our expectations too high? Why do you think that is?

On a related note. What route has the worse rock in the Cascades? My vote would be for the 150 ft of class three in the U notch on the way from Glacier basin to the Pride galcier on Kyes peak. Not vertical, but also not a solid piece of rock on the whole thing.

Rgds

 

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Worst rock in the Cascades-probably on one of the volcanoes eh. The odd loose block or whatever on a non-volcanic route is nowhere near tio the total choss on the big heaps.

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The worst shit I have seen was actually in the Rockies. Ex.- the frozen Kitty Litter found ajacent to Ice climbs in Cody, WY. and Hyalite Canyon, Mt. Maybe you just really notice it when your lookin for a good anchor on a thin ice climb...

But then again, I'd agree with Dru that the volcano's must be the worst. I've seen more holds break in the Gym than in the Mountains. Only cause I try to use the light tough on Alpine choss.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

Offroute?!

Famous sandbag. But calling it 10a is kinda pushing it.

 

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I guess I would want to further qualify the question as "whats the worst rock you've encountered on a legit climbing route?" I've found the rock quality on Crooked Thumb in the Pickets to be the worst technical rock I have yet to attempt in the Cascades.

I *do* find that it completely varies by what you are used to, of course. I've had close friends who climb in Yosemite call Washington Pass climbs choss. Its all relative..

Alex

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Capt. the softer the rock the better the tool swingin. Look at the chalk climbing they got in Britain. have tried this fun technique out on the clay cliffs near Skaha. good fun. Lambone would like it its kinda like legitimized chipping....

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you know what some really bad rock is, that shit they call punk now-a-days....blink 182 you gotta be kidding me. limp-biscuit and almost anything you hear on the radio, now that is some bad rock! i finally figured out why most of those songs are so short, their talent doesn't go much further.

good rock.....i won't even start

 

[This message has been edited by erik (edited 07-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by erik (edited 07-18-2001).]

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CIRCLE JERKS

DKs

BAD RELIGION

DOA

SNFU

NOMEANSNO

REVOLTING COCKS

NOFX

SEX PISTOLS

old school. even if NoFX is borderline...

 

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I saw NoFX singer get kicked in the nuts at a show in '90 in LA and also saw Social D over nine times when I lived down there. Fuckin a for DK and all the Jello Biafra fans hooray!

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California Ubber Alles! Holiday in Cambodia! Bad Luck!

[This message has been edited by To The Top (edited 07-18-2001).]

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jeez... the grumpy old capt'n just won me over. Who could possibly see Social D nine times and be a bad guy....

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Limp Bizkits songs are short 'cause dumbass singer couldn't think of any other word besides "rollin'."

As for the other kind of rock, worse shit I have had the displeasure of coming into contact w/ was Castle Mountain or Castle Peak in the Norse Peak Wilderness, across the basin from a horse camp at Goat Lake. 3rd/4th classy scrambling, but it was loose, sandy, dirty, greasy, nothing good about it. Most sketched out I've ever been even though it wasn't "technically" difficult at all. I don't think hardly anybody visits that choss pile, for good reason. I don't think Beckey even mentions it.

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So lets set up a scale. I'll say the first two pitches of Freedom rider is a 2 or 3 and the last few pitches of outer space a 9 for rock quality.

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The summit ridge area of Johannesburg is pretty bad stuff. The volcanoes are pretty bad also. As for WA '"destination" crag areas, Vantage is the worst. Many of the climbs we did there in the early 90's are way different then they are now. And despite what some may say, the choss out at Vantage has and never will support a legit' 5.13. If temporarily 13, rehearsal sessions, will yield enough "new holds" to become 12. This will apply forever.

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I kind of like chossy rock that you can't trust or get pro into because it evens out the playing field. Doesn't matter how strong you are... and you can't bolt it into submission. Same challenge for you, modern techno-climber with asymmetric crampons bent shafts and sticky rubber, and for Joe Old School in 1922 step cutting in hemp breeches with a tweed rope, smoking a pipe grin.gif

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Rock quality is all relative. when I was climbing in Montana, I was used to the dirty and loose rock with flairing crack systems in Blodgett Canyon. I thought the few high-quality cracks there made up for everything else. After climbing a lot out here and B.C.: Index, Squamish, Washington Pass, the Bugs, I went back there and all I could think about was how shitty the Bitterroot is, when it used to not bug me that much. If people learn to climb on solid rock at the crag or a choice alpine destination, or are just used to it, when they encounter mildly shitty rock they freak out and label it as horrid, etc. It all depends on what you're looking for and what you're used to I guess.

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Yeah, I'm sure the volcanos have the worst. Lucky for us their covered with snow and ice.

Well I don't know if I'd go so far as to say I like chossy rock, but its there regardless and is just one more part of climbing that keeps it interesting.

Ironically, my closest call with loose rock happened on the west ridge of Forbidden famous for its high quality rock. We were trying to hurry while down climbing and I reached up and pulled down a 200 lb block that was balanced in place. I got my leg/foot out of the way just in time. That was eye opening and changed the way I climbed.

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I found the the rock on the south face of Mt. Viennese to be very poor and at the 5.9-5.10 range made the route very runout and thought provoking. We were lucky that nobody was injuried from falling rock or breaking holds.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mtnclimber:

I found the the rock on the south face of Mt. Viennese to be very poor and at the 5.9-5.10 range

 

Opinions differ

Route originally climbed in leather mountaineering boots and rated 5.7!!

 

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If you climb an overhanging route at Vantage rockfall might turn it into a slab by the next year.

Canadian Rockies shale bands are pretty bad. Imagine climbing stacks of dishes like you would find in a restaurant sink. Ditto the "Coast mountains red rock" found on peaks like Birkenhead. Still not quite Volcanic-bad though.

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