akhalteke Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It is not a hypocrisy at all. She had the integrity to do precisely what she has asked of others during the entireity of her political career. Her daughter made a mistake and they are dealing with it in a way that is consistent with their political beliefs. Your right it was a sin. We all do. The way she handled the situation is what sets her apart, not her political affiliation. Maybe you could be more open minded. Those that believe that abortion is murder would,, of course have a problem with a teen pregnancy that ended up with an abortion. You know nothing of Bristol Palin. You know even less about her relationship to the father. Maybe you should think about that before you start calling out epithets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Forgive me if I'm dense, but isn't the idea that we're to applaud someone for deciding to have a baby predicated on them having a choice to do so? The very choice that anti-abortionists want to take away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Forgive me if I'm dense, but isn't the idea that we're to applaud someone for deciding to have a baby predicated on them having a choice to do so? The very choice that anti-abortionists want to take away? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhalteke Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 That is the most backwards logic I have ever heard. Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsbud Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) "While I think your choice to bivy 12' off the ground was a stupid one, we agree on this. But people make choices. Sara Palin made hers, and you made a descision to stick your head up your ass, and bivy 12' off the ground. Good thing that a troop of Girl Scouts happened by, and rescued you. " Hey I know someone who did this in Harrison bluffs....and yes he was a Moron. Edited September 2, 2008 by adamsbud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It is not a hypocrisy at all. She had the integrity to do precisely what she has asked of others during the entireity of her political career. This is really driving me nuts. Why is everyone so proud of Sarah Palin because HER DAUGHTER chose to keep the baby? Is that a tacit admission that her daughter didn't really make the choice? Shouldn't you be praising the daughter? Not The mother? I don't see why this has anything to do with the mother, per se, unless you are saying that the mother made the choice for the daughter, which would be pretty fucked up, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 why is this an issue or a political one at all??? this is a 17yr old that's pregnant. she is certainly not the only one out there. it happens. this family is dealing with based on their morals. you can argue about abstinence v. safe sex education all you want but the fact is regardless of the chosen strategy kids will get pregnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 why is this an issue or a political one at all??? this is a 17yr old that's pregnant. she is certainly not the only one out there. it happens. this family is dealing with based on their morals. you can argue about abstinence v. safe sex education all you want but the fact is regardless of the chosen strategy kids will get pregnant. My point exactly. WTF does this have to do with the mother, or her ability to be VP? And why is everyone so proud of the mother for the "choice" her daughter made in keeping the baby??? If the mother gets credit for her daughter's choice in keeping the baby, then shouldn't the mother get dinged for her daughter's choice in having pre-marital sex? hahaha I WIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 The real relevance of the issue is not Levi,Bristol or even Sarah. The major function of a president is to make appointments including Judges, Cabinet,U.S. Attorneys and heads of Administrative Agencies. This shows that John McCain will make those appointments on the basis of politics without adequate research. Exactly what has been going on for the last 7 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhalteke Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Jesus Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhalteke Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 The real relevance of the issue is not Levi,Bristol or even Sarah. The major function of a president is to make appointments including Judges, Cabinet,U.S. Attorneys and heads of Administrative Agencies. This shows that John McCain will make those appointments on the basis of politics without adequate research. Exactly what has been going on for the last 7 years. Hey homey. He knew about it before he nominated her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Ya know bug, when candidates speak of change, maybe this is one area where they could start. Yeah, I smell a turd in the woodpile too, and if there is a Desperate Houswives worthy plotline behind Gov. Palin's actions, then expose that. But if it really is just a pregnant daughter, leave her alone. She's got enough to deal with. I'm curious to see how the ethics investigation in Alaska turns out. I have a cousin who is an attorney with the Alaska AG's office. I was thinking of calling him to see if I could get an unedited report on her. Obama has already weighed in and said to lay off private matters. I agree. What I am saying is, everybody on the McCain campaign knew about this going into the fray. It is not a surprise to them. My question is, with regard to the rat, what IS the surprise? What IS their strategy for utilizing this tactic? Stay tuned. Smoke screen in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 i was questioning this selection before this information. it certainly does not affect my decision making for my vote. what bothers me about Palin is that she has limited political experience and zero foreign policy experience. its not an unrealistic concern that McCain could die in office. I don't think I want her running the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 The thing is, this is another example of the hypocrisy coming from the authoritarian right. They have delusions of superiority based on what they claim are "higher" moral principles and standards. What makes them "authoritarian" is that they want to attempt to enforce their facade of morality on all of us. Sort of like communists, but actually more like the Taliban. What makes the right hypocrites is NOT that this girl got pregnant (shit does happen, even to republicans). The hypocrisy is that the traditional response by right wingers to this kind of thing is typically first long winded condemnations and moralizing, rants about "sin" and "out of wedlock.." etc, followed by attempted legislation and electoral candidates promoting things like religion in public schools, no sex ed, no sex counseling, anti choice laws, legal accountability of parents, constitutional definitions of family and marriage etc. To the religious/political far right, all this is "NOT A PRIVATE MATTER". In fact, it is "a fundamental matter of social and moral values and it is of importance to us all" - or so they would claim. But then if the "unexpected" happens to one of their own, especially one of their own who is supposed to be a prominent example of the "moral" facade they are attempting build, well then it becomes a "private matter" and of "no significance". And just the fact that the political right in this country so often tries to sell itself off as the party of "conservative, traditional, God fearing values", tries to make things as black and white as possible, good vs evil, us vs them, man-woman-marriage-kids bla bla.., just the fact that in real life, things that are a little ambiguous and a little complicated often get tossed into the mix with (the right wingers seldom acknowledging it until it happens to them), this alone makes this whole situation hypocritical. Had Palin encouraged her daughter to get an abortion on the sly to further her own political ambitions, I think the case for hypocrisy would be rather more potent. I'm with Eric in that I don't see any hypocrisy evident in the Palin family's actions here at all, for the reasons he outlined above. I think that you could also extend much of the same defense to large swaths of the religious right when the question at hand is what they'd choose when the scenario in front of them involved choosing between a pregnant daughter bringing the pregnancy to term or the same daughter having an abortion in secret. I personally think that "abstinence only" education is a bizzarre experiment against reality that is statistically certain to generate both more teenage pregnancies and abortions, think it does a profound disservice to the teens its supposed to help, that Bill Clinton's "Safe, legal, and rare" formula was the right goal to shoot for with respect to abortions - but just don't think that charges of hypocrisy are especially warranted in this case. The charges are more apt when it comes to folks on the Right expressing shock and dismay at the fact that their political opponents are seizing on the Palin pregnancy for political advantage, since they'd be doing the very same thing. Quite amusing for anyone on the Left to pretend that they'd do otherwise, or that this is shortcoming that's unique to their political opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 McCain said he knew about this which if true indicates his judgment is even worse. The proper way to handle the pregnancy was to bring it out front and center not to conceal it with the happy family pictures. Did they actually think that they could conceal it with the web and tabloids??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 McCain said he knew about this which if true indicates his judgment is even worse. The proper way to handle the pregnancy was to bring it out front and center not to conceal it with the happy family pictures. Did they actually think that they could conceal it with the web and tabloids??? Why is having a pregnant, teenage daughter something that needs to be hidden? Or announced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Because when it comes out the media will have a feeding frenzy which will distract from whatever message you are trying to convey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Because when it comes out the media will have a feeding frenzy which will distract from whatever message you are trying to convey. So, essentially, he should NOT have picked her because he should be afraid of the media reaction? I can think of a lot of reasons he should not have picked her, but that is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 why is this an issue or a political one at all??? this is a 17yr old that's pregnant. she is certainly not the only one out there. it happens. this family is dealing with based on their morals. you can argue about abstinence v. safe sex education all you want but the fact is regardless of the chosen strategy kids will get pregnant. I'm not disagreeing with you here minx, but where Palin and the Republican party campaign on their moral values (Pre-Marital Sexual Abstinence and Pro-Life) it does become neccesary to bring out the family skeletons. On the positive side, if handled properly it certainly goes a long way to humanize a candidate. But I also believe as stated previously that she's a seventeen year old girl. She going through a pretty traumatic experience. She should be left alone. Unfortunately, this kind of exposure comes with the territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I agree that things like the AIP, Troopergate, federal earmarks while mayor, Ted Stevens 527 and the rest are far more important but this is America after all and the media love sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Can we all move on now? Who cares about her teenage daughter...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Well she is cute........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 The daughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 As far as Bristol Palin is concerned, yes let's move on. But I'm sorry, there are too many unanswered questions related to the McCain campaign to simply drop this story altogether. If we're to believe that McCain Campaign knew about the pregnancy and knew the story would eventually come out, then they must have hoped to use it for political advantage: Draw the Democrats into using messy smear tactics and wait for the backlash while hoping to inspire voters' sympathy for this "typical American family" while turning the Palins into a poster-family for pro-life values. Pretty big gamble, pretty messy, but not beyond a losing campaign going for broke. How else could you possibly explain their contention that they knew about the pregnancy? I don't think they knew. It's another example of an inept, shoot-from-the-hip, hotheaded decision gone bad. One of many we could expect from His Maverickness, if he were to be elected, with much graver consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtn_mouse Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I don't think they knew. It's another example of an inept, shoot-from-the-hip, hotheaded decision gone bad. One of many we could expect from His Maverickness, if he were to be elected, with much graver consequences. Mac Cane is running scared, you can bet he did not know about this story. And is it a story? Shouldn't be, but coming from the right winged crazy law and order superior christian supremesy holier than thou political party, this is going to be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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