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mtn_mouse

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Yup. Freud bit me. I'm curoius about this idea that Hillary was going to close down or take over all private healthcare services. That is not consistent with what I've recently read. Hmm.

 

We'll never know for sure, because her plan was formulated behind closed doors--much like Cheney's reviled energy plan seven years ago. I've read that one plan called for the punishment of doctors who provided private services.

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VA Benefits are NOT socialism. They were paid for by service to our country as part of the "benefits package", if you will. This service is NOT a transfer payment.

 

I shop a lot. That's a service to our country, because I pour money into the economy.And I pay taxes. That's a service. My last impulse purchases at Pottery Barn and Fireworks might have paid for some more bullets and grenades for use in Iraq. That's a service. Where's my free health care, dammit?

 

 

 

:tup: :tup:

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I like how so many people who aren't currently wealthy ardently defend the interests of the wealthy, presumably on the basis that someday, they too might be wealthy and will want to enjoy all the special privileges.

 

The biggest trick the wealthiest of this country ever pulled, was convincing the public, that what is good for them, is good for you.

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As I understand it, and I think this was one of Hillarys biggest shining moments, she hired a recently retired, sharp, female republican congressional staffer who had a strong interest in health care to help her revamp the Health Care issue which was poorly put forth earlier.

 

The plan was to recind or allow to expire the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% and totally fund it off that. Looked like a good idea from what I saw, and big props to Hillary for going to the mat and trying to do what she believed was the right thing for the country. Had she exhibited this kind of behavior instead of the posing she was doing so poorly with, she'd most likely have been the next president.

 

We waste so Fucking much money on healthcare. You all opposed to any changes need to start by recognizing that you still pay for those poor folks smart enough to work the system to go to emergency rooms to get checked for something as simple as a case of the sniffles while working stiffs just get shit on and impoverished. It's damn efficient as it is right now. The hospitals CANNOT AND WILL NOT turn anyone away from the emergency room.

 

Oregon is a bit different than the rest of the nation with the Oregon Health care plan as Oregons Governor for 8 years, Kitshaber was an ER room doctor, this was in issue he changed vis a vis the federal funding with our state alone, which is working pretty good.

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Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?

 

Did someone fly planes into the twin towers and the pentagon previous to 8 years ago? The world has changed. That our way of life is relatively unchanged is quite remarkable as I see it.

 

Tell me....what does planes flying into buildings have to do with our occupation of Iraq? Last time I checked the 19 highjackers were all from Saudi Arabia. WTF?

 

What does Iraq have to do with what I was talking about kiddo?

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It is even more than that, Bill. We are already paying for a lot more than simply emergency rooms and these guys say that if you account for all tax-funded healthcare spending we are already paying more than we might for even a single payor healthcare system.

 

Americans already pay for national health insurance — they just don’t get it. In this 2002 Health Affairs paper, David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler point out that the standard accounting miscategorizes two major public health expenditures as private: the tax credit for private health insurance and the cost of the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program.

 

When these costs are accounted for, it becomes evident that Americans already pay the world’s highest health care taxes. In fact, the amount of public health spending in the U.S. is greater than the combined public and private spending of nations which provide universal comprehensive health insurance. A single-payer system could provide such coverage to all Americans with no need for additional health dollars.

 

PDF file for extended discussion

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Of course, even if the government can provide health insurance or even healthcare services cheaper than the private companies and of better quality, and even if their tax burden might actually go down, Fairweather, KK and Canyondweller would still be against it because this would be soclalism. It is a good thing these insane "government is the enemy" ideas weren't so popular when we undertook to wipe out Polio or build the interstate highway system and I, for one, am glad we at least have the medicaid and medicare systems that we presently have.

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I like how so many people who aren't currently wealthy ardently defend the interests of the wealthy, presumably on the basis that someday, they too might be wealthy and will want to enjoy all the special privileges.

 

The biggest trick the wealthiest of this country ever pulled, was convincing the public, that what is good for them, is good for you.

 

What, pray tell, is wrong with being wealthy, or aspiring to wealth? I do, every day. Pursuing success, prosperity, wealth...when did these become bad things?

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Thanks Matt. Yeah, from the outside looking in Hillary round one on healthcare looked marginal at best, horrendous at worst. 2nd go round, from what I could see, and I didn't look too closely, looked like it was much better thought out and planned. It turned my opinion around 180 degrees on the subject. I know there may have been times I've been less than generous towards her, but I was very impressed with Hillary's choice of advisor's to work on that project.

 

Maybe she'll transfer to over to Obama or McCain. Shes still a sitting senator.

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I like how so many people who aren't currently wealthy ardently defend the interests of the wealthy, presumably on the basis that someday, they too might be wealthy and will want to enjoy all the special privileges.

 

The biggest trick the wealthiest of this country ever pulled, was convincing the public, that what is good for them, is good for you.

 

What, pray tell, is wrong with being wealthy, or aspiring to wealth? I do, every day. Pursuing success, prosperity, wealth...when did these become bad things?

 

You are missing the point.

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I like how so many people who aren't currently wealthy ardently defend the interests of the wealthy, presumably on the basis that someday, they too might be wealthy and will want to enjoy all the special privileges.

 

The biggest trick the wealthiest of this country ever pulled, was convincing the public, that what is good for them, is good for you.

 

What, pray tell, is wrong with being wealthy, or aspiring to wealth? I do, every day. Pursuing success, prosperity, wealth...when did these become bad things?

 

You are missing the point.

 

Hmm...okay, I'll play dumb (lots of practice). What point am I missing?

 

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See where is gets me? What are you talking about? Do you think we are at war? Who are we fighting? Did they attack us? Who are they?

 

1) No. We are battling an insurgency

2) Insurgents; mostly Middle Eastern foreigners

3) Yes, daily.

4) Syrians, Pakistanis, Iranians, ect.

 

Any more questions?

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