And the Accusations Begin!

[Alpine_Tom]

And, if you didn't read the bio, Maggie Gallager is a former editor of National Review. If you needed any hints about what a knee-jerk unthinking opinionated 'commentator' she might be, that should lay it out for you. (That's the same august publication with suggested, after 9/11, that we should "invade their countries, kill their leaders, and force them to convert to Christianity.")

[KaskadskyjKozak]

And, if you didn't read the bio, Maggie Gallager is a former editor of National Review. If you needed any hints about what a knee-jerk unthinking opinionated 'commentator' she might be, that should lay it out for you. (That's the same august publication with suggested, after 9/11, that we should "invade their countries, kill their leaders, and force them to convert to Christianity.")

 

all that matters is she's a butter hog.

[Alpine_Tom]

The thicker the cushion the finer the pushin'

 

That's "the sweeter the pushin'"

[G-spotter]

But butter isn't sweet.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The thicker the cushion the finer the pushin'

 

That's "the sweeter the pushin'"

 

you misspelled "sweatier"

[KaskadskyjKozak]

But butter isn't sweet.

 

good point. i'd imagine it's more like curdled butter milk

[sobo]

In my experience, women who do not work out and consider a vacation to be laying on a beach for 10 days, will not in a thousand years consider their husband "a good man" if he is a climber.

These two types are from such different worlds they should make no effort to comment on each others' activities.

Neither should they wed, for that matter...

 

No self-respecting climber would marry a butter-hog.

True dat. But I was going on the (perhaps flawed??) assumption that a woman that could lie on a beach for 10 days could still be a trophy wife and not have to work out, given certain innate metabolic characteristics. However, if her metabolism was such that she could not do this, then yes, she would be a butter hog and, ergo, no self-respecting climber would marry her.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

In my experience, women who do not work out and consider a vacation to be laying on a beach for 10 days, will not in a thousand years consider their husband "a good man" if he is a climber.

These two types are from such different worlds they should make no effort to comment on each others' activities.

Neither should they wed, for that matter...

 

No self-respecting climber would marry a butter-hog.

True dat. But I was going on the (perhaps flawed??) assumption that a woman that could lie on a beach for 10 days could still be a trophy wife and not have to work out, given certain innate metabolic characteristics. However, if her metabolism was such that she could not do this, then yes, she would be a butter hog and, ergo, no self-respecting climber would marry her.

 

that kind of woman typically becomes a butter hog after marriage. no need to keep up appearances any more. it's happened to a climber friend or two of mine.

[dberdinka]

Detailed 1st-person Account

 

Some other dude who doesn't know what he's talking about

 

"The Sherpas and the high-altitude porters can't be expected to play the role of fixing the ropes and camps on higher ground on K2."

 

"When the weather cleared, the expedition leaders sent porters ahead to fix ropes at the Bottleneck."

 

"Van Rooijen was dismayed to find, when he arrived at the Bottleneck, that the ropes had been incorrectly placed."

 

AND

 

"It was also becoming clear that not everyone was as skilled at mountaineering as they had made out. Confortola said: “At the beginning, everyone seemed to be experts, but they couldn’t do or didn’t do what they are supposed to.”"

 

"There were too many who weren’t capable in the summit party."

 

"As he lay in his hospital bed last week, van Rooijen, 40, said the lesson he had learnt from the climb is that on K2 you can rely only on small groups of trusted friends."

 

Edited August 18, 2008 by dberdinka

[ivan]

"van Rooijen, 40, said the lesson he had learnt from the climb is that on K2 you can rely only on small groups of trusted friends."

 

dude, didn't you, like, learn that in high school and stuff?

[Gary_Yngve]

Detailed 1st-person Account

 

Ugh, I really hate seeing the phrase, "conquered the mountain."

 

[Bug]

...and if your trusted friends do not come through, rely on the skills and good graces of the lone stranger.

[dberdinka]

Ugh, I really hate seeing the phrase, "conquered the mountain."

 

Right up there with "Alpine Assault!"

[Hugh Conway]

Ugh, I really hate seeing the phrase, "conquered the mountain."

 

You prefer to mount them?

[ScaredSilly]

On 19 July 1939 Wiessner and Pasang Sawa Lama had a breakfast of hot tea in camp IX Wiessner felt strong enough to the summit before dark and with a day's food he Pasang set off. They reached the summit-bulwark at the top of the snow basin, from where it was some 575 meters to the summit dome.

 

Coming to a rock-band they found themselves faced with two possibilities. They could either go to the right, where the route led under a dangerous looking balcony of ice, posed ready to break off above their heads, or go to the left, where there seemed to be a gully in a precipitously steep wall of broken black rock. Wiessner who always felt safer on rock opted for the left hand choice even though technically appeared more difficult.

 

The day was surprisingly windless Wiessner was even able to climb without his mittens making full use of the sense of balance he had developed on the Elbe sandstone.

 

At 18:00 hours Wiessner reached what he later reported to be 8382 meters. Only 15 meters would have brought him access to the summit ridge, which he did not expect to present any serious climbing difficulties.

 

They later down climbed the gully ...

[ivan]

 

You prefer to mount them?

"mount them! and make incisions in their hides that their hot blood might spin in english eyes!"

[EWolfe]

Ugh, I really hate seeing the phrase, "conquered the mountain."

 

Right up there with "Alpine Assault!"

 

L7iSTQdjm_0

[pc313]

no video!!

[Buckaroo]

""At 18:00 hours Wiessner reached what he later reported to be 8382 meters. Only 15 meters would have brought him access to the summit ridge, which he did not expect to present any serious climbing difficulties.""

 

""They later down climbed the gully ...""

 

 

They went down because of Pasang Sawa Lama's superstitions about evil mountain spirits that show up after dark.

 

 

 

 

 

"The Sherpas and the high-altitude porters can't be expected to play the role of fixing the ropes and camps on higher ground on K2."

 

It might not be aesthetic but they can if they're paid enough, capable and willing. It's up to the leaders to make sure of these parameters.

 

"Van Rooijen was dismayed to find, when he arrived at the Bottleneck, that the ropes had been incorrectly placed."

 

The highest skilled porter had gone down sick. They lost time re-setting the ropes, putting their return time into the dark.

 

AND

 

"It was also becoming clear that not everyone was as skilled at mountaineering as they had made out. Confortola said: “At the beginning, everyone seemed to be experts, but they couldn’t do or didn’t do what they are supposed to.”"

 

The single biggest factor, the objective hazard of the icefall taking away the fixed ropes. It's very likely all the climbers could have made it down the fixed ropes or similar (unfixed) terrain at lower altitude and without the high winds. How do you prepare for K2?

 

Do you look at the fixed ropes as you go up and say, "could I make it down if these got swept away?" Maybe, maybe not. Do you give up because you don't have enough of a safety cushion? Some do, some don't.

 

"There were too many who weren’t capable in the summit party."

 

The altitude dulls the senses. Maybe like El Cap, you can climb 5.10 at the crags but get up on the big wall and 5.9 is hard. Maybe they were all competent until you took away the cushion of the fixed ropes? How do you prepare for K2 without getting on K2?

 

"As he lay in his hospital bed last week, van Rooijen, 40, said the lesson he had learnt from the climb is that on K2 you can rely only on small groups of trusted friends."

 

At these altitudes even your close friends can't help you. You are on your own, if you don't feel comfortable solo, you shouldn't be up there. And forget about the bodies. Everyone almost died bringing Gilky's body back and now this time the Pakistani climber Jehan Baig was trying to help recover a body and died himself. What's the sense of risking life for someone who's already dead especially in these conditions?

 

The K2 death scenario has happened more than once. You've paid $1,000's to get to base camp, you've waited years in your climbing career and weeks at the base for the weather. You know the chances of coming back again may be slim. The season is near it's end, there's a weather window and you go for it. Who cares if there's a bunch of other climbers as long as you realize there's not necessarily safety in numbers in this situation (as has been proven in the past). You push yourself to the edge even when the fog of altitude and conditions makes it unclear where that edge is.

 

You climb up past the fixed ropes thinking they'll be there on the way back. It's a little late too but your thinking is dulled from the altitude, you put yourself closer to the edge because you may not get this chance again. The edge is moved even closer when the ice falls and the result is predictable at that point.

 

One thing that could be taken from the 1986 disaster is you should never go up without stove/fuel to melt water. The thing that might be taken from this year's tragedy is maybe a couple climbers in the group should have a 120M tech rap cord and a long ice screw for a V-thread just in case the fixed lines get taken out.

 

[wfinley]

Memorial recently placed on seldom visited local peak. RIP Ger.

[ivan]

the irish are highly skilled in getting themselves killed for noble causes

[sammy]

Detailed 1st-person Account

 

Ugh, I really hate seeing the phrase, "conquered the mountain."

 

Amen, Gary.

[mike1]

the irish are highly skilled in getting themselves killed for noble causes

no respect.

[Bug]

Buckaroo, Have you been up K2 or something like it?

I mean no disrespect. I have not. Just trying to put your assessment in perspective.

[Buckaroo]

"Buckaroo, Have you been up K2 or something like it?"

 

when I was younger and thought I might end up climbing in the Karakorum or Himalaya (never did, never will) I studied the 8,000ders, K2 in particular.

 

the 1986 tragedy is a pretty good read and gives some perspective on alpine climbing in general.

 

hope I don't come across as a know it all,(really just a weekend warrior recently) just throwing some thoughts out there, maybe someone with more experience up high can comment.

 

"No Shortcuts Too the Top" was pretty good. Apparently Viesturs had really good control of his willpower, to turn around several times when things got too dangerous. To know he could always come back later.