G-spotter Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Once or twice over the years I have heard some climbers advocate that leaders new to trad climbing should take some "practice falls" onto gear in order to learn to trust it. Here is a case where the gear was not trustworthy and a fatal head injury resulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 thats retarded..... short practice falls onto bolts are okay but why on gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 No helmet, "practice fall" on a blue alien. Jumped from two feet above pro. Alien blows, next piece stops him from decking. Cause of trauma was flipping upside down and hitting head. Can't speculate on cause of flip, belayer says the rope was not behind the leg. "Practice fall" on a bolt could have caused the same injury.... Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 No helmet, "practice fall" on a blue alien. Jumped from two feet above pro. Alien blows, next piece stops him from decking. Cause of trauma was flipping upside down and hitting head. Can't speculate on cause of flip, belayer says the rope was not behind the leg. "Practice fall" on a bolt could have caused the same injury.... Very sad. Very True.... wearing a helmet is very smart... I always wear mine and I dont care if I look cool or not... but if the practice fall was two feet above a bolt (wouldnt rip like the gear) the fall would have been much shorter and the climber probably wouldnt have flipped and died. THe safest place to learn to lead and 'practice fall' is in the gym.. climbers can fall off the roof or on overhangs and not get injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateF Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sorry to hear about this accident whether the fall was intentional or accidental, on a bolt or on gear... I'll be curious to hear how the gear failed & what caused the flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 if'n i'm gonna take a "practice fall" i'm sure as fuck not going to do it on a blue alien! my wild coutnry #6 on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canyondweller Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 This whole "practice fall" idea is nonsensical. Learn to place good pro, study better climbers than yourself, read, etc. Go aid climb something easy; you'll see up close what a cam/nut/tricam does as you apply a load to it. Then you don't have to worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crillz Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I tend to agree that practice falls are useless. What do you really gain out of them? Experience determining good pro vs. junk pro, and being aware of your surroundings (including your rope) is much more important. If you want to push the grades, the falls are going to happen anyway. Screw the gym - get out on real rock. I feel sorry for the guy's friends and family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiente Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 That's awful. That's really crappy as the poor guy was just messing around at the crag and it ended up this way. It is amazing that short falls can cause so much damage. I've only seen two inverted falls and both of them were on bolts that were very close to the leaders body. I think it is easier to get twisted up in the rope when you take a short fall. Yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Inverted falls come from no where... I once took an inverted fall and ended up landing on my belayer head first. I couldnt figure out what had happened until I saw the huge gushing gash where the rope had caught my leg. Practice falls are useless. I never needed to practice falling cuz the the first climb i attempted to lead was an 11+ route on a 45 degree wall. I fell off.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 inverted falls do not come from "nowhere"...they should simply never happen...i can not think of a time when i've flipped upside down...it just doesn't happen... learn to fall properly...also, learn when not to fall no matter what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think that if you fall very much you are going to take an inverted fall once in a while. Sooner or later you'll screw up and get your leg caught in the rope, bounce off a ledge where your feet catch briefly, or flip off a lieback or something. Helmets are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 inverted falls do not come from "nowhere"...they should simply never happen...i can not think of a time when i've flipped upside down...it just doesn't happen... learn to fall properly...also, learn when not to fall no matter what... Most inverted falls occur when people are climbing so hard that they cant think about what will happen when they fall... it shouldnt happen and it sucks ass bit shit happens man! My inverted fall was on a 5.12+ and I was trying to clip of a terrible crimp.. when my hand blew off all the slack i had pulled to clip went through my leg. That stuff doesnt happen as much on bigger routes and trad climbs but on tought sport climb stuff like that happens to experienced climbers and noobs alike.. 5_cfMSG43tU My fall was alot like this one^ and he is one of the best climbers alive... shit happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 sure...anything can happen...I haven't inverted after my first couple of years...I fall alot...especially now... matt...i never commented on the helmet issue...i commented about the moment that you are disengaging from the wall...like i've said, i have a hard time envisioning myself going invert on steep climbing...slabs and trundling falls, all bets are off as you may "trip" up on the way down... perhaps i'm not pushing myself hard enough, but i generally have a decent sense of when i may be coming off...that split second for me is enough to get myself orientated (i think)...hard sport or trad ( "hard" is relative to the climber), i feel i'm a lot less likely to flip...even redlined... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 On Flying Circus it would be possible to snag a foot on a ledge and flip. I think practice falls are ridiculous, especially onto trad gear. Aid climbing gives you the experience you're looking for. But if you must practice fall onto trad gear... sew it up. Please. That is the real foolishness of this story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I agree that practice falls are utterly useless.. if you must fall to overcome some fear just jump on a really hard climb, push yourself and fall off naturally... then you get something from it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 On Flying Circus it would be possible to snag a foot on a ledge and flip. I think practice falls are ridiculous, especially onto trad gear. Aid climbing gives you the experience you're looking for. But if you must practice fall onto trad gear... sew it up. Please. That is the real foolishness of this story. I think his second piece caught him, didn't it? I think the real moral of this story is wear a helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Absolutely wear a helmet. If he fell far enough to invert, the second piece was a ways down there. Double up your placements, triple them, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 -twbQt-w93Q&feature=related practice falls are gay.... dont do them, they can be dangerous and nobody wants to look this silly^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafilax Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 There's a long history of 'practicing falls' to get over the fear of falling and to work on the body mechanics to ensure safe falls when they happen unexpectedly. This practice is for both belayer and climber alike. Most people essentially build a multi piece anchor to fall onto. The point is to practice the fall not test the gear. I really need to get a new helmet. The old Edelrid I have is good for rock fall straight on and that's about it. I was wearing it on a steep sport route and it flipped off my head while heal hooking. One of the new light weight foam models with some rear and side impact protection is in my near future. This is the second death due to inverted falls and head injury in as many years in the Bluffs. Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Well for the moment this is all based on an unverified account of a single person on the internet.(?) But I have to agree that it sounds like the severity of this accident has more to do with flipping over and lack of head protection than with the willingness to fall on gear. One could argue that had the leader been wearing a helmet and/or did not invert, then testing the gear (with a good piece below it) might have been safer than climbing high above untrustable gear and then decking. Of course anyone is free to suggest that a climber should try avoid this kind of situation altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateF Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Most inverted falls occur when people are climbing so hard that they cant think about what will happen when they fall... it shouldnt happen and it sucks ass bit shit happens man! My inverted fall was on a 5.12+ and I was trying to clip of a terrible crimp.. when my hand blew off all the slack i had pulled to clip went through my leg. That stuff doesnt happen as much on bigger routes and trad climbs but on tought sport climb stuff like that happens to experienced climbers and noobs alike.. I see "experienced climbers" set themselves up for rope problems pretty frequently. As Marc mentions, this is usually when they are pulling really hard and only mindful of the moves or can not avoid the risk and are willing to take it. Sometimes it seems to be just plain ignorance of the problem or complete lack of attention. The gym may seem safe, but I see ropes draped over heels or people stepping behind the rope pretty frequently. As a belayer, I try to make sure my leader does not do this, and usually they appreciate it. There was a Tieton trip report posted here pretty recently with a few pictures of someone leading with the rope hooked all the way up at his butt cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koshkii Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 sure...anything can happen...I haven't inverted after my first couple of years...I fall alot...especially now... matt...i never commented on the helmet issue...i commented about the moment that you are disengaging from the wall...like i've said, i have a hard time envisioning myself going invert on steep climbing...slabs and trundling falls, all bets are off as you may "trip" up on the way down... perhaps i'm not pushing myself hard enough, but i generally have a decent sense of when i may be coming off...that split second for me is enough to get myself orientated (i think)...hard sport or trad ( "hard" is relative to the climber), i feel i'm a lot less likely to flip...even redlined... I don't think it's possible to always know when you'll be coming off... Just last week, i was gym leading on a vertical-slightly overhung route, and got up to where the last bolt was near my feet. The clips had all been to the left of the route at that point, so the rope was hanging down my left side, vs. between my legs. The route then went left around a slanting arete (less than vertical), and i couldn't see that the only way to stay on was to step out onto an insecure slippery foothold around the corner until I was already there...and the rope behind my left ankle. When my foot blew, i inverted, but luckily my belayer caught me before hitting anything. Only injury was a rope burn around the leg. But it got me thinking hard about the helmet--there's NEVER a good reason not to wear it outside (except when your head won't fit through a squeeze chimney, in which case I start to ask myself if I should be there in the first place... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hafilax Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 In the McLeod clip he got spun around when his foot popped off the hold. Not much he could do there. I've seen horrible foot work at the gym with people getting their leg behind a draw let alone the rope. It makes me cringe. I'm not immune either. A little while ago I employed my occasionally bad habit of pulling up some slack mid move using my knee. This of course puts the rope behind the foot unless the route angles. I quickly clipped the anchor but noted to myself not to do that again in that situation. I think that really is the difference between the experienced and the ignorant. The experienced climber acknowledges that they have put themselves into a compromising position whereas for the ignorant it seems to have come from out of nowhere. When you realize you could get flipped you have the option of evaluating the risk and acting accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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