Alex Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 The new vipers for alpine ~= the old vipers for alpine. (For alpine I'd rather have something simple like a straight shafted CFBP). The new cobra is worth the extra cash over the new viper, IMO. My own progression has been: original X-15s (no BRS), curved handle Black Prophets, old vipers, old cobras, quarks, new cobras. I climbed for one season on a quark and a new Cobra as well. I like the new cobras best of all these tools. I've tried the new Vipers after having owned the new cobras and didnt like so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Old thread revival... Opinion on the new vipers for alpine? Is the cobra worth the $100/tool extra? No, it is not worth the extra $100 if you are on a tight budget. Viper is an exceptional tool at a great price point. Cobra is an exceptional tool if price is not an issue. How good is the Viper? A buddy of mine lead or soloed every pitch of Polar Circus last winter with Vipers. While not a climb I really consider "alpine" (more a long crag climb) it should give you an idea of just how good they are on water ice. Pick angle on the Viper is just a tiny bit less than the Cobra...a design feature that was intentional making it slightly more user friendly on less than vertical terrain. While stronger and more rigid the carbon fiber shaft won't take the day in day out abuse the hydroformed alumminum will. If you want another take on the the Viper/Cobra in the alpine look to Will's comments here. His previous tools were Vipers I believe. Also doesn't take much looking around to see just how many guys have done some really hard mixed stuff with the Viper. http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2094 http://www.alpineexposures.com/blogs/chamonix-conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montypiton Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I keep sayin' it, but since the subject keeps coming up, I'll repeat it: DMM Rebel - does pretty much everything - comfortable leashless on steep/extreme, yet grip is low-profile enough to plunge effectively. Overall geometry is close to current model Cobra, but hooks more readily for me. Only disadvantage, if you can call it that, is they may be harder to find than BD or Petzl/Charlet. It's the only tool I've owned since the early '80s that I haven't modified... For what it's worth, I do like the Cobra, Viper, and Nomic, but find that none of their grip/shaft systems meet all my criteria as well as the Rebel. As far as price differential between Cobra and Viper, I've actually found Cobra less expensive than Viper among liquidators selling via Ebay. I own a pair of Cobras as "back-up" that mostly get used by my sons or poorly equipped colleagues - cost roughly $300 FOR THE PAIR. At that price, as much as two of my sons are climbing, it made sense... and I don't mind using them if/when the Rebels are out of commission for some reason. Aside from Rebel, Nomic, Cobra, & Viper, I'd as soon climb on my vintage '89 straight-shaft Cassin Antares - which I sometimes still do when I occasionally outfit my sons and their friends for a day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'll repeat it: DMM Rebel .. Couple of observations...three retailers pop up on google for the Rebel. Only one sells replacement picks. Take a look at UKclimbing and see kind of responses (or lack of) there are on the Rebel. Rebel is made in the UK. http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=301 Cheap Cobra tools? Big difference and no comparison how they climb between a current production Cobra and the old c/f Cobra...imo $150 is no deal on the older version. Most any current production tool can be had on the Internet for around $200 these days. http://www.ems.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=3739641 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montypiton Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 to clarify - the price I quoted above is for the current model Cobra, seen within the last 90 days. The pair I have were new stock, and why or how a liquidator acquired a batch of them so soon, I can't explain. But ya gotta admit, its one helluva deal! Best I've seen for a Viper is +- $175 for a single. Only thing I can imagine is maybe the Viper is an easier sale on that venue... doesn't HAVE to make sense, does it? and Dane's right - buying picks for my Rebels is not like breezing into your local BD dealer. I've found Mountain Tools, in Carmel, Ca, (mountaintools.com) to be my most reliable source. Now that I'm on my third pair, I'm able to make the new ones last a bit longer by switching to retuned old/worn picks for routes where I expect to be contacting much rock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 what's the name of the liquidator you got the deal on the new cobras from on eBay? How are the vipers' hammers for pounding pins? Does the continuous curved shaft make it more difficult than say, the quark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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