ericb Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 It's new wave chest beating. Instead of spraying about the hard climb you've sent, you casually mention it in passing and call it "moderate". Just what I was thinking but didn't have the stones to immortalize it on a BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Now that you've got the stones, Eric, lets hear your recs for moderate climbs for the moderate climber. I listed one that most of the regular posters here probably wouldn't even rope up for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 You could take the first two words of Webster's definition and squeeze Slipstream in there but, of the big name climbs listed here, how many of the people posting on cc.com or even posting in this thread have climbed a bunch of routes much more difficult and bigger? On cc.com? I'd say maybe 10 or so posters on this page are climbing routes that aren't "moderate" ***sidenote*** and that is totally cool... every one climbs for different reasons and to push themselves. But if someone thinks they should toot their horn because they aided their way up the girth pillar they need to STFU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Now that you've got the stones, Eric, lets hear your recs for moderate climbs for the moderate climber. I listed one that most of the regular posters here probably wouldn't even rope up for! I also don't have the stones to tip my hat as to what MY definition of moderate is on this BB. Remember my Outerspace thread??? Once bitten..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 As the cutting edge/edge of the envelope gets pushed further and further to me what is "moderate" becomes harder and harder... I call bullshit. "moderate" has little to do with what the world's best athletes are doing. "moderate" has to do with what a majority of the athletes are doing. A synonym of "moderate" is "average". The world's best marathon runners can finish in a little over 2 hours. By your definition, a "moderate" finishing time would be around 3 hours. After all, 3 to 3.5 hours is achievable if you train. In truth, less than 10% of marathon runners finish in less than 3.5 hours. The average is 4.5 hours to finish. Sorry, I had to bring some logic into the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Hey: I listed The Tooth! That's been cascadeclimbers' biggest joke in the past. But it is a great climb and I was just raving about it on Saturday. Fenderfour and I will stick up for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 As the cutting edge/edge of the envelope gets pushed further and further to me what is "moderate" becomes harder and harder... I call bullshit. "moderate" has little to do with what the world's best athletes are doing. "moderate" has to do with what a majority of the athletes are doing. A synonym of "moderate" is "average". The world's best marathon runners can finish in a little over 2 hours. By your definition, a "moderate" finishing time would be around 3 hours. After all, 3 to 3.5 hours is achievable if you train. In truth, less than 10% of marathon runners finish in less than 3.5 hours. The average is 4.5 hours to finish. Sorry, I had to bring some logic into the discussion. No apology necessary...this is on the climber's board and not in spray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well when posting our choices shouldn't we follow the definition as given by Layton in the first post: Single pitch to full scale VII's under 5.11c/d and WI5+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 As the cutting edge/edge of the envelope gets pushed further and further to me what is "moderate" becomes harder and harder... I call bullshit. "moderate" has little to do with what the world's best athletes are doing. "moderate" has to do with what a majority of the athletes are doing. A synonym of "moderate" is "average". The world's best marathon runners can finish in a little over 2 hours. By your definition, a "moderate" finishing time would be around 3 hours. After all, 3 to 3.5 hours is achievable if you train. In truth, less than 10% of marathon runners finish in less than 3.5 hours. The average is 4.5 hours to finish. Sorry, I had to bring some logic into the discussion. Using slipstream as an example the majority of the climbing world doesnt find WI4+ hard... just all the NW punters 5.13 doesnt make the mags anymore because more of the population is climbing it... as standards rise so does (or should) the ability level of the "next generation" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Peter: Is that your definition of "moderate?" When was the last time you climbed 5.11b/c? Grade VI? WI 5? (I realize, of course, that it could have been last weekend but, for most of those in this thread, I bet it wasn't.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 hmmm... Climbed 5.11b/c the last two weekends. One weekend successfully one weekend with hangs. WI 4 - 20+ years It was pretty much one of my first ice routes, so it doesn't seem immoderate. Not sure if I ever climbed a WI5. Grade VI 10 years ago approx. Lots of grade VI routes are moderate. I would say "moderate” generally means topping out about 10a/b. ( Weekend Rock series anyone) That said Layton clearly set the bar higher so any why complain when people post routes that conform to his definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I'm not complaining. I just find it amusing. That and I'm looking to see if I can encourage some less deserving climbers to chime in along with you elites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 damn you mike! moderate's a state of mind - if properly bent, it's all extreme! and i did enjoy my one Xtreme solo of da toof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 As to the Grade VI, I understand where you are coming from. Peter, but I think 90% of those who consider themselves climbers would say there is nothing moderate about a Grade VI. Yes, Wayne's Sunribbon Arete is only 5.9 and I think that's why he thought it met the definition of moderate, but only in the context of a conversation about what all or nearly of us here would call "hard" climbs would it be called "moderate." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well when posting our choices shouldn't we follow the definition as given by Layton in the first post: Single pitch to full scale VII's under 5.11c/d and WI5+ So for instance, under that definition, the Rupal Face is moderate? Huntington in winter? To be more serious, using that criteria, Astroman belongs pretty high on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well when posting our choices shouldn't we follow the definition as given by Layton in the first post: Single pitch to full scale VII's under 5.11c/d and WI5+ So for instance, under that definition, the Rupal Face is moderate? Huntington in winter? To be more serious, using that criteria, Astroman belongs pretty high on the list. God damn you guys love to split hairs. Just list some routes you thought were cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 What else are you going to do when faced with a cc.com thread about "moderates" but split hairs? Lets see the thread about "favorite hard climbs." Nope. No disagreement or posturing there! Remember: we're all just wasting time at work. (Who's autosig was that?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 What else are you going to do when faced with a cc.com thread about "moderates" but split hairs? I dont know... you could list some climbs you thought were cool and add the disclaimer "mileage will vary" perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I'll chime in on the climb I'll never do.....The Doug Scott Route (5.9 A1?) or maybe Line of Credit (5.10 A1) on Mount Asgard. 4000+ of mostly moderate climbing on perfect granite. Maybe not moderate like da toof but certainly lacking the objective hazards of say slipstream. Yes that looks as cool as they come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 John: I did: The Tooth, W Ridge of Pidgeon, and High Exposure. I have seen where folks on this bulletin board posted about how they didn't think these were worthy, and one guy even posted "what's the big deal about the West Ridge of Pigeon." In my opinion, the guy needs therapy if he likes alpine rock and can't find a way to enjoy the incredibly easy stroll that the West Ridge of Pidgeon must be because he just soloed Watchtower -- but your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Nice Darin! Now we are talking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 East Buttres of Middle Cathedral Rock, Yosemite North Butress of Mt Stuart, Wa my two most favorite longer moderate climbs, will repeat them over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanstaafl Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Defining moderate as climbs I actually enjoyed while I was on them, instead of climbs that seemed great once I was back down sitting around a fire with a drink in my hand: Cragging: Davis-Holland/Lovin’ Arms – Index, WA Something of Value/Last Moon/Moonraker – Blouberg, South Africa West Face – North Early Winters Spire, WA Camp Farm – Cochamo, Chile Hyperspace – Snow Creek Wall, WA Buch Goin - Refugio Frey, Argentina Alpine: North Ridge – Forbidden Peak, WA East Ridge – Wolf’s Head, WY Lost Marsupials – The Throne, Little Switzerland, AK Squash Head/Backoff – Santaquin Canyon, UT Triple Couloirs – Dragontail Peak, WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 mine would be Supercouloir Mt. Blanc du tacul Beckey Chounaird- south howser West ridge of prusik As far as the whole whats moderate. Most weekend warriors can obtain 5.11 and wi5 in a couple years but few of these ever climb this level on grade VII or even grade VI. I think if your going to include grade VI routes you should probably drop it done to 5.10 A2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 As the cutting edge/edge of the envelope gets pushed further and further to me what is "moderate" becomes harder and harder... I call bullshit. "moderate" has little to do with what the world's best athletes are doing. "moderate" has to do with what a majority of the athletes are doing. A synonym of "moderate" is "average". The world's best marathon runners can finish in a little over 2 hours. By your definition, a "moderate" finishing time would be around 3 hours. After all, 3 to 3.5 hours is achievable if you train. In truth, less than 10% of marathon runners finish in less than 3.5 hours. The average is 4.5 hours to finish. Sorry, I had to bring some logic into the discussion. Using slipstream as an example the majority of the climbing world doesnt find WI4+ hard... just all the NW punters 5.13 doesnt make the mags anymore because more of the population is climbing it... as standards rise so does (or should) the ability level of the "next generation" Point successfully missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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